To anyone that thinks Loomis will be fired... (1 Viewer)

[BoNcHiE]

Interesting point. Is there any correlation between Saints success timeline and Loomis taking over the Pelicans?

I think it's actually to the year that we started to stink when he was given that job.

I'm not sure he's actually the GM of the Pelicans though. I thought it was clarified that he's just a more overseer role and not the direct day to day management like a normal GM.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

The more I think about, the more I think Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He's either a bad personnel guy or he's not a personnel guy at all. Either is not acceptable for a GM.

I think its B. Yet wasn't that the purpose of hiring Ireland? At least for the drafting side of things...not sure who's handling FA/Pro personnel. That may still be Payton picking and choosing?

 

[BoNcHiE]

Clearly the front office has struck out swinging on some players but I still think if you go through most of the deals we complain about now, there were strong arguments in favor of those deals at the time. And for a lot of years, Loomis was highly regarded by much of the fanbase.

Unfortunately, the bad deals have resulted in the team having to operate from an ongoing bad position on some other decisions.

The biggest fault seems to be no crystal ball view that Byrd, Spiller, Lewis, and Galette weren't going to work out here vs compensation given. And now this season, we can't seem to avoid bad fortune.

It's not that we haven't had success under Loomis (although we never did until Payton got here) or that he's a terrible GM.

But if you have a GM who's "not a personnel guy" then you are fighting with one hand tied behind your back in this league. Yeah, you could land a knockout with the other fist sometimes but it's not the best way to go about it.

I know Loomis will never, ever be fired. My suggestion is that he step into a higher up role, overseeing both franchises, but reliquish the day to day work with the Saints. Hire another GM/President of football operations/whatever you want to call them, and let them run the team.

 

[Nightshade]

The more I think about, the more I think Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He's either a bad personnel guy or he's not a personnel guy at all. Either is not acceptable for a GM.

Loomis is the money man all personnel decisions are ultimately Payton's

 

[guillermo]

This is not a problem of a person, this is problem of structure.

Dennis Lauscha and Mickey Loomis are the people that Benson trusts in his sports business.

Lauscha has always been the de facto power. He basically makes the decisions a regular owner would.

Mickey is in charge of heading the saints and pelicans, and here is the problem.

Mickey is a good administrator, an aggressive guy who takes the business to the limit looking for the best results possible.

Mickey has never been a football guy, he has never been a scout or and x's and o's kind of guy. The best asset Mickey has is to know what his limits are and surround himself with quality manager to do the job as best as possible.

For money issues (cap), he has relied on Khai Harley, for building the team he relied on Rick Reiprish (draft) and Ryan Pace (pros). Reiprish and Pace were strong opinions to balance with Payton's, but the structure changed.

Pace left and Reiprish was fired, and here comes Ireland and Terry Fontenot.

It is too early to judge Ireland's draft but they it seems we are getting better (not spectacular results). Now, on the hiring of free agents, I think we have less then good experiences.

I think the biggest problem with free agency is that we have gone for the kill, looking to get free agents that are supposed to by the "cherry of the pie", the last piece of the puzzle.

We have given big money to positions like tight end and safety, and to my judgement this are not the building blocks for a team.

If I have to define the problem is the lack of strategy:

- We need to choose a scheme, marry to it, and build upon it.
- We need to have a budget by group and respect it.
- We have to understand that some key positions are only filled with draft picks and that free agency is for secondary positions and depth.
- We should be using free agency money to sign players that are hitting prime but haven't been even starters on their original team. That takes a lot of scouting.
- Big contracts are only for our own players. Players we know they will continue performing on high level.
- We should use our later draft picks for developing players that after a couple of years can substitute players that may leave after their first contract.

And more important, we should be patient and understand that we are not a player away, we need to reinforce our systems, and continue to patiently build around them. That is the way to keep a team competitive, and with some luck, to advance deep in the playoffs.

Mickey can build a structure like this, but he needs to find people that makes him (and Payton) to be more patient. To me, Lauscha should be that man.

 

[LoE]

I think it's actually to the year that we started to stink when he was given that job.

I'm not sure he's actually the GM of the Pelicans though. I thought it was clarified that he's just a more overseer role and not the direct day to day management like a normal GM.

That's the way I remember it to. But I haven't looked it up.

Right or wrong, I've always felt it was a bad idea for one person to try to manage two different teams.

 

[rsmith2783]

The more I think about, the more I think Loomis is a bigger problem than Payton. He's either a bad personnel guy or he's not a personnel guy at all. Either is not acceptable for a GM.

You obviously forgot about the Haslett years.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Loomis is the money man all personnel decisions are ultimately Payton's

Do you guys really think I'm not aware of that?

I'm saying that's an issue.

 

[BoNcHiE]

You obviously forgot about the Haslett years.

I'm struggling to see how your response relates to my post.

 

[SaintsFanatic]

Interesting point. Is there any correlation between Saints success timeline and Loomis taking over the Pelicans?

I mean, we've sucked since 2012. So there's that.

 

[rsmith2783]

I'm struggling to see how your response relates to my post.

Basically Loomis isn't a personnel guy at all. Some of the same stuff we're seeing now is what we saw under Haslett. FA blunders, horrible drafts, hanging on to poor coordinators/position coaches, etc.

 

[No2DC]

Basically Loomis isn't a personnel guy at all. Some of the same stuff we're seeing now is what we saw under Haslett. FA blunders, horrible drafts, hanging on to poor coordinators/position coaches, etc.

Na, remember it was Mueller and Haz running the show. Some kinda way Loomis came out on top when the dust settled, and he did hire Payton. After the SB people stopped questioning him, an everybody got more power.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Basically Loomis isn't a personnel guy at all. Some of the same stuff we're seeing now is what we saw under Haslett. FA blunders, horrible drafts, hanging on to poor coordinators/position coaches, etc.

My statement was rhetorical. We all know he's not a personnel guy.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

See Guillermo's post above.

The problem is the structure. It seems to be that since the Super Bowl, the organization has become arrogant, with a win-now mindset resulting in questionable moves and Payton simply exercising too much power.

Though he would never admit it and would probably fight it, Payton would be better served by a strong general manager, who could talk reason and say no. Loomis has been on too many occasions an enabler.

We have had too many big-dollar free-agent signings that have failed.

We as a matter of course trade away draft picks to move up in the draft, resulting in year after year our having too few draft selections and the lack of depth on the team that we currently see. The statistical evidence is overwhelmingly that moving up in the draft and giving up draft picks to move up is overall bad strategy.

We have several assistants on the coaching staff who seem to owe their positions to their relationship with Payton rather than their coaching performance over the years.

And we have seen Payton and the coaches engage in questionable conduct--yes, the antics of Gregg Williams--that hurt the franchise. I have always said that there is no way that the bounty incident could have happened had the GM been Jim Finks. Payton unquestionably knew what was going on, and a good GM would have known what was going on and would have put a stop to it with the league cautioning against what Williams had been doing.

I would love to see a Ted Thompson or Dave Gettleman as our general manager. But it is not going to happen in the near future.

 

[DavidM]

It's not that we haven't had success under Loomis (although we never did until Payton got here) or that he's a terrible GM.

I don't think there's a single formula for success, and for the purposes of this conversation, we can all recognize that the Saints have had success doing things their way, so Loomis having to fit a mold or he's 'unacceptable' is something I don't think is accurate.

Many of the player acquisitions made over the years have worked out quite well. Unfortunately, some expensive ones haven't and the team has paid a high price for that.

In reality, Loomis was never as great as the praise indicated, but I don't think he's as bad now as the rising criticism suggests, at this later point in his career. And that's generally true in these situations.

The Saints are losing and everything and everybody is understandably fair game now. That said, my bigger concern is how the Saints look to future prospects if they can't get on the winning side, combined with Drew Brees playing out the twilight of his career. Loomis, or anybody, might be facing some bigger obstacles to get the right players here at the right value.