Tomorrow could be a historic day......and not the good kind (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Miller]

I'm not calling for an end of the world meltdown like some want to believe. I'm not saying we are headed for the next great depression. I have been saying the economy is in serious trouble and just about every economist and financial advisor agrees. I have also said the possibility for a huge meltdown or depression is possible. I think the fed is finally coming clean with just how bad things are, I think people are finally realizing it and hopefully things start to settle down. IMO the market will be up and down the next week until after the fed cuts rates again then we will see more selling.

No one single thing is the cause of the problem. A lot people need to look in the mirror. Economic problems are caused by a lot of people over time. From bad loans, to energy manipulation, to outsourcing, to creating unprofitable domestic conditions, to day trading, futures trading to government borrowing, spending, bribing, ect.....

a lot of people have their hand in the cookie jar, and they are going to have to feel some pain so as to not stick it in there again. But i'm not very opptomistic about it.

 

[bclemms]

No one single thing is the cause of the problem. A lot people need to look in the mirror. Economic problems are caused by a lot of people over time. From bad loans, to energy manipulation, to outsourcing, to creating unprofitable domestic conditions, to day trading, futures trading to government borrowing, spending, bribing, ect.....

a lot of people have their hand in the cookie jar, and they are going to have to feel some pain so as to not stick it in there again. But i'm not very opptomistic about it.

Absolutely people are to blame as much as the government. Of course a shrinking dollar because of artificially low interest rates makes people want to borrow. The people are to blame because of most of the problems but the root of the problems are the government, financial institutions and big business for encouraging the problems.

For the long run the people are to blame for picking bad politicians from the local level all the way up. It is the peoples fault for allowing government to expand in ways the constitution was written to avoid. It is the peoples fault for allowing the government to get more powerful than the people and to spend all their money. It is the peoples fault for allowing the government to borrow against the next generation. It is the peoples fault for allowing the government to devalue the dollar. It is the peoples fault for letting their emotions get in the way of their brain when electing people. It is the peoples fault for paying more attention to Spears, Hilton and Lohan than Bush, Pelosi, Cheney, etc. It is the peoples fault for not doing research and only listening to the media to form opinions. It is the peoples fault for just about everything but the government sure has helped.

I have posted this video several times on this site but it mostly goes ignored. People don't want to hear about this, they don't want to deal with it. We like to procrastinate too much but it is just flat out scary. Gay marriage, the death penalty and where the word "god" should or should not be used are bigger issues to people than this.
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[LSSpam]

I'm not calling for an end of the world meltdown like some want to believe. I'm not saying we are headed for the next great depression. I have been saying the economy is in serious trouble and just about every economist and financial advisor agrees. I have also said the possibility for a huge meltdown or depression is possible. I think the fed is finally coming clean with just how bad things are, I think people are finally realizing it and hopefully things start to settle down. IMO the market will be up and down the next week until after the fed cuts rates again then we will see more selling.

The one good thing about an election year is that one of the first orders of business for the new president will be to convince everyone how horrible the economy really is and enforce a correction so that the recovery will occur during his term (and he can take credit for it).

 

[Furor]

there never will be 100% winners in any economy, parts of it are always up and parts are down. Too much though is not based on actually productivity or profitablity, its based on percieved future value. Perceptions that are not always valid.

I think you're confusing the economy with the stock market.

The economy is ONLY measured by output, production, consumption, etc. There is no "future value" that has anything to do with the economy. It's all directly measured.

The stock market on the other hand has some "future value" priced in. For instance, an additional 50 basis point rate cut by the fed at their next meeting is already priced in.

 

[DadsDream]

Yep, the economy is just grand. Bush decided to scrap the stimulus plan, the fed decided to do an emergency rate increase 3/4 of a point since we really didn't need it Tuesday and most people are speculating that they will raise rates another half point next week.

What on earth are you babbling about, bclemms? The stimulus plan is a GO.

Deal Reached To Jumpstart Economy
Tax Rebates, Business Tax Cuts Highlight Package Created By Congress, White House
January 24, 2008
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/business/main3747508.shtml

 

[bclemms]

The cut was priced in last week. Now Tuesday's actions reset it but yesterday was buying in anticipation of the cut. The Fed meets on the 30th. In theory the Fed shouldn't have to cut since they were planning on a cutting 50 but went to 75 because of the gloom that formed before the markets opened Tuesday. However, the markets are forcing the feds hand because they intentionally continued to speculate the additional 50 point cut. Not the Fed is going to have to cut 50 or they will undo the emergency action if the market is discouraged with anything less. ECB is making this more difficult by not cutting rates because of their fear for inflation. This means the dollar should get hammered pretty good on this next cut.

The question I have is what will the markets do between the 50 point cut on the 30th and the 18th of February when the fed meets again. I think the Fed shouldn't cut again in Feb but the markets are probrably going to force them and if they make a mistake of not cutting on Feb 18th then they will not have another scheduled meeting until March 30th. The time between Feb 18th and March 20th could be a long 6 weeks.

I think I am just going to be sitting on my hands. Gold looks great if the fed cuts 50 next week and in Feb.

What on earth are you babbling about, bclemms? The stimulus plan is a GO.

Deal Reached To Jumpstart Economy
Tax Rebates, Business Tax Cuts Highlight Package Created By Congress, White House
January 24, 2008
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/01/24/business/main3747508.shtml

Some people like to call it sarcasm.

 

[DadsDream]

Just for you, bclemms:

Drew Sheneman, New Jersey -- The Newark Star Ledger

 

[stunpals]

hmmmm

 

[TPS]

>>No one single thing is the cause of the problem. A lot people need to look in the mirror.

Republican presidents are the cause of the problem. It's been proven since the post-Nixon era. You vote for them, they work policies to destroy the middle class who are the backbone of the nation. That's all there is to it. Vote for one again! :17:

TPS

 

[stunpals]

Did globalization start under the W administration or the Clinton administration? By Globalization I really mean the steady outsourcing of jobs to India and South America.

 

[HouDat]

Republican presidents are the cause of the problem. It's been proven since the post-Nixon era. You vote for them, they work policies to destroy the middle class who are the backbone of the nation. That's all there is to it. Vote for one again! :17:

What are the alternatives for the middle class? The Democrats?

:bigredx:

To quote the old tune, "We won't get fooled again."

The problem is that neither party caters to the middle class. Both pay lip service to it, but at the end of the day, we know which socio-economic class is the pet of each respective party. And every time a candidate comes along with a message that really resonates with the middle class, the Establishment makes sure that person never is able to ascend to power.

Until middle America finds a candidate behind whom they can unite and "take the power back" ( :rock: ), the stupid cycle will continue.

 

[TPS]

>>What are the alternatives for the middle class? The Democrats? :bigredx: To quote the old tune, "We won't get fooled again." The problem is that neither party caters to the middle class. Both pay lip service to it, but at the end of the day, we know which socio-economic class is the pet of each respective party. And every time a candidate comes along with a message that really resonates with the middle class, the Establishment makes sure that person never is able to ascend to power.

That sounds as good as the term, "Republicrat." Fact is, with the Democrats, there is usually going to be more attention paid to things like healthcare, cost of tuition, targeted tax cuts, etc. vs. tort reform, insurance giveaways and programs to guarantee cash flows to pharmaceutical companies. The Democrats generally offer a better alternative for the middle class from what I've seen. I'm not saying they're a great alternative, as they have gotten my vote for the Presidency exactly twice in 20 years. Of course the GOP's got none of those votes, but they are in play in 2008.

TPS

 

[HouDat]

That sounds as good as the term, "Republicrat." Fact is, with the Democrats, there is usually going to be more attention paid to things like healthcare, cost of tuition, targeted tax cuts, etc. vs. tort reform, insurance giveaways and programs to guarantee cash flows to pharmaceutical companies. The Democrats generally offer a better alternative for the middle class from what I've seen. I'm not saying they're a great alternative, as they have gotten my vote for the Presidency exactly twice in 20 years. Of course the GOP's got none of those votes, but they are in play in 2008.

That's just it, though. Each party pays just enough lip service to generate interest among the middle class, but when it boils down to it, neither one is truly committed to the middle class. For every anecdotal piece of evidence one person presents to show that the Democrats are the party of the middle class, there's an equal and opposite piece of anecdotal evidence supporting the other side.

Call it the "Republicratization" of this issue if you wish (but I think you know that's BS). That won't change the fact that the middle class is truly taken for granted by both parties until election time.

 

[BigWiggle200]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEgwdDHD5Fbs&refer=home

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/ma...1YourView&xml=/money/2008/01/07/ccview107.xml

The two events are closely related...connect the dots...scary.

Everytime government stalls a recession, it will just grow larger when it does hit. The main reason the government has no business in the economy.

When the fed lowers the rate, this essentially means printing money. This money is then loaned out to banks. There is a lot of speculation that this money from the emergency cut Tuesday went to to PPT to save the market and it makes sense when you look at the data. The market dropped nearly 500 points suddenly and almost recovered itself within one day. Who had that kind of money to put that much influence on the market? Neither the Fed or the PPT are subject to any kind of disclosure so there is no telling what each group did for sure...

We are in a recession whether people want to believe it or not and everytime the Fed lowers rates, it only hurts the economy more because of inflation. The products we buy from overseas cost more because the dollar is worth less to other countries. This is the real threat to the middle class, and could essentially wipe the middle class out if it is not controlled. They can lower the rate all they want to, it is not going to solve a thing.

Government should never get involved with the market, it can solve it's own problems.