Trans athletes make great gains, yet resentment still flares (2 Viewers)

Mr. Sparkle

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Across the U.S. and in many places abroad, transgender athletes are breaking barriers in high school, college and pro sports and being embraced by teammates and fans. But resentments can still flare when transgender women start winning and dominating their sport.

Exhibit A is a recent public exchange involving tennis great Martina Navratilova, who came out as a lesbian in 1981 and is a longtime gay-rights activist. She now stands accused of being “transphobic” after asserting that many transgender women — even if they’ve undergone hormone treatment — have an unfair advantage over other female competitors.

“A man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organization is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies if he so desires,” Navratilova wrote in a Feb. 17 op-ed for The Sunday Times of London. “It’s insane and it’s cheating.”

I find the headline and overall tone of the story to be a classic example of media bias but its an interesting phenomenon.

If my teenage daughter was competing against a teenage boy undergoing hormone therapy I'm not sure I'd consider that a fair competition. I consider that a good faith question that has to do with biology, not "transphobic resentment."

112352
 

SystemShock

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agree with everything 'on average'
but we're talking about the very, very narrow part of the bell curve
Usuain Bolt is faster than every women on the planet (probably), BUT FloJo (or whoever is the fastest 100m woman) is faster than ...???... 98 percent of the men on the planet? (probably more like 99.22 percent)
all olympic female sprinters beat all of the men's times in the 1950s - and that gap is narrowing
I had to look that up, and unless I did something wrong in my search, it turns out the record holder for the 100 meters is still FloJo with 10.49 seconds, and the record has a note in the IAAF record books stating it may have been wind aided, but still, the record holds. And that was in 1988. The previous record was 10.76.

The slowest men's record in the 1950's is 10.2. So no, no single Olympic female sprinter has yet beaten the slowest men's mark of the 1950's.

In contrast, the men's record in 1988 was set by Carl Lewis @ 9.92 (Ben Johnson ran faster, but we know how the story went). Since 1988, men sprinters have shaved .34 of a second (Usain Bolt @ 9.58) to the 100 meter dash.
 

Oye

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I guess you think that cases involving naturally occurring abnormal factors in athletes (Phelps, Semenya) when competing against their chromosomal peers are relevant to this discussion, but they aren't.
you said that Semenya should be out of luck. I (think I) disagree with the IAAF, assuming I understood your point. I read an article. It reminded of what you wrote, that Semenya should be out of luck. That seemed close enough to me.

This article was linked in the thread by Aratheael: https://www.apnews.com/f3bcaf134b7240d2af0bdc6dee39e596

Caster Semenya’s running future will be decided by three judges starting next week in a landmark case that will challenge science and gender politics.

The two-time Olympic 800-meter champion from South Africa is looking to overturn eligibility rules for hyperandrogenic athletes proposed by track and field’s governing body. The IAAF wants to require women with naturally elevated testosterone to lower their levels by medication before being allowed to compete in world-class races from 400 meters to one mile.
to that, you wrote:

If the IAAF is going to sanction the amount of testosterone in all athletes, Caster Semenya is SOL (or at least should be).
it was on topic then, it seemed. That's why I included it here. And I don't think she should be SOL.
 

Flipx99

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This video, brought to you by the Daily Signal, gives some insight into this issue from the perspective of biologically female athletes:

 

Dallas_Saint73

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So, the guy above recently competed in a women's powerlifting competition. Anyone care to guess how he fared against the women?
I am a competitive powerlifter in the USAPL and this is a very controversial topic currently. The USAPL is the largest powerlifting federation in the US, so this is being watched by many- including politicians who champion for transgender fairness/equality.

The flashpoint of the debate is regarding males who have transitioned to females wishing to compete in female weight classes. The push from biological women lifters is that this would be unfair competition as males (on average, not speaking exceptional cases) tend to have more testosterone and other biological advantages as it relates to the sport of powerlifting (body composition, leverages, and other factors that favor top performance regarding the big three lifts- squats/bench/deadlifts).

I have yet to see this use case play out on the platform, so who really knows how much of a difference this will make. There are some VERY strong female lifters- some that can out lift men in their respective classes- but that is not a norm, and more of an exception. It is definitely an interesting time for powerlifting. The current stance from the chairs/board is to not allow transitioned males to compete within female classes. I expect that that USAPL will maintain its current stance despite pressure from advocacy groups, political pressure, etc.

The USAPL is also a drug-free federation, this means that for those who are using androgens to aid in a transition from female to male, would have to be excluded from competition altogether since testosterone and other androgens are banned substances (we follow WADA guidelines).

 

Goatman Saint

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Not sure this I could support. If her natural body runs higher in testosterone for whatever reason then I think it is wholly unfair for her to have to change that. However, the trans in sports I don’t agree with. The foundational differences between women and men cannot be undone, unless surgery was done before puberty to not allow puberty and the changes to happen.
 

SystemShock

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I was going to start a different thread, but I guess I can put it here...

This is something XY's don't have to deal with at all, cisgender or transgender.


Olympic track and field star Allyson Felix joined a chorus of recent criticism against Nike on Wednesday, accusing the US sporting goods giant of penalizing female athletes who took time off to have a child.

"They told stories we athletes know are true, but have been too scared to tell publicly: If we have children, we risk pay cuts from our sponsors during pregnancy and afterward," Felix wrote in the Times.

However Felix said that when she requested guarantees that she would not be penalized if she performed below her best "in the months surrounding childbirth," Nike baulked.
The article goes to say that Nike as vowed to do something about it, but we'll see.
 

Yatman

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If my teenage daughter was competing against a teenage boy undergoing hormone therapy I'm not sure I'd consider that a fair competition. I consider that a good faith question that has to do with biology, not "transphobic resentment."
Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes
"Mentally and physically, we know the outcome before the race even starts,” said Smith, who is the daughter of former Major League pitcher Lee Smith. “That biological unfairness doesn’t go away because of what someone believes about gender identity. All girls deserve the chance to compete on a level playing field.”
 

tenordas

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If legislators have any sense (which seems rarer and rarer these days), they will simply create a third category for the races: Men, Women, and Trans. That way, the trans kids can still compete, but the physical inequality is removed in fairness to the female runners. Letting the situation continue status quo is grossly unfair, but not letting the trans compete isn't fair, either. Give them their own category. That's basically what they ask for in most other areas, so just go ahead and do it here.
 

SaintInBucLand

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If legislators have any sense (which seems rarer and rarer these days), they will simply create a third category for the races: Men, Women, and Trans. That way, the trans kids can still compete, but the physical inequality is removed in fairness to the female runners. Letting the situation continue status quo is grossly unfair, but not letting the trans compete isn't fair, either. Give them their own category. That's basically what they ask for in most other areas, so just go ahead and do it here.
That's too much like separate but equal and is a slap in the face of trans-athletes. If a person identifies as female and you tell them they cannot participate in female sports, you are pretty much telling them they are not female.
 

SystemShock

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That's too much like separate but equal and is a slap in the face of trans-athletes. If a person identifies as female and you tell them they cannot participate in female sports, you are pretty much telling them they are not female.
Physiologically, they aren't. That's just the reality of life.
 

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