Trans athletes make great gains, yet resentment still flares (1 Viewer)

Mr. Sparkle

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Across the U.S. and in many places abroad, transgender athletes are breaking barriers in high school, college and pro sports and being embraced by teammates and fans. But resentments can still flare when transgender women start winning and dominating their sport.

Exhibit A is a recent public exchange involving tennis great Martina Navratilova, who came out as a lesbian in 1981 and is a longtime gay-rights activist. She now stands accused of being “transphobic” after asserting that many transgender women — even if they’ve undergone hormone treatment — have an unfair advantage over other female competitors.

“A man can decide to be female, take hormones if required by whatever sporting organization is concerned, win everything in sight and perhaps earn a small fortune, and then reverse his decision and go back to making babies if he so desires,” Navratilova wrote in a Feb. 17 op-ed for The Sunday Times of London. “It’s insane and it’s cheating.”


I find the headline and overall tone of the story to be a classic example of media bias but its an interesting phenomenon.

If my teenage daughter was competing against a teenage boy undergoing hormone therapy I'm not sure I'd consider that a fair competition. I consider that a good faith question that has to do with biology, not "transphobic resentment."

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He wasn't advocating for it. He's using sarcasm to make his point. Hence the "but since we know that's not the case..." Basically if you're going to go to the extreme of denying or ignoring inherent advantages of biological males then you should have no problems with allowing everyone the same advantages, as in performance enhancing drugs, as well.

It's dealing in extremes, but I get the point.

I understand that's the point he was trying to make. But I have seen people (more so on the professional athletic circuit) suggest that there should be no rules against drug/performance enhancement use. I think that it's a ridiculous opinion, as it would increase the gap between the have and have nots...and it would also create SIGNIFICANT health concerns for our athletes.
 
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I find sports performance fascinating and have done some research of the topic. For those interest in a different strategy of bracketing youth sports other than by age, I'd recommend reading the following article: https://www.researchgate.net/public...uth_Sports_Background_Concept_and_Application

Essentially, biobanding is a term that categorizes youth athletes by maturity level instead of age. So, those that are physiologically and anatomically men, play against men...not boys. The challenge is that it is a little bit creepy. You have to inspect the athletes Tanner Stage. Which for those that don't know...you are looking at this genitalia and other more private parts. But their finding are very interest, though I'm not sure if people would be willing to comply. Perhaps there is a way to standardize physical maturation to correct for gender differences. For instance...an individual that is XY with a Tanner Stage of A equals an XX individual with a Tanner Stage of B. I think that it COULD be done. But yes, it would be creepy and invade privacy, and I don't think that many parents/athletes would/could comply.
II don't think that would ever fly with parents, but I'm also curious how that would work with contact sports like football or boxing where brain development can be impacted pitting young kids that have advanced physical development against adults of similar physical stature?
 
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I understand that's the point he was trying to make. But I have seen people (more so on the professional athletic circuit) suggest that there should be no rules against drug/performance enhancement use. I think that it's a ridiculous opinion, as it would increase the gap between the have and have nots...and it would also create SIGNIFICANT health concerns for our athletes.
Absolutely agree.
 
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II don't think that would ever fly with parents, but I'm also curious how that would work with contact sports like football or boxing where brain development can be impacted pitting young kids that have advanced physical development against adults of similar physical stature?

That’s a good point. The studies I’ve seen have been on non-contact sports...well besides soccer which has a substantial risk of head injury
 

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In a 2013 interview with David Letterman, Williams spoke candidly about competing against male players. She had no qualms talking about how different the sport is on the men’s tour versus the women’s tour: "If I were to play Andy Murray, I would lose, 6-0, 6-0, in five to six minutes, maybe 10 minutes," Williams told Letterman. "The men are a lot faster, they serve harder, they hit harder. … It's a completely different game."
 
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I think that she is being modest. But Serena Williams is a freak. She may be the most imposing female athlete that I've ever seen. If SHE can't compete against professional men in a sport that neutralizes gender about a much as any sport possibly can...it's telling. We may just approach a time when competitive sports simply fail to exist. I do not think that there is an all-inclusive strategy that does not hurt one subgroup of people.
 

B4YOU

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I think that she is being modest. But Serena Williams is a freak. She may be the most imposing female athlete that I've ever seen. If SHE can't compete against professional men in a sport that neutralizes gender about a much as any sport possibly can...it's telling. We may just approach a time when competitive sports simply fail to exist. I do not think that there is an all-inclusive strategy that does not hurt one subgroup of people.
Below is the full context on this and the McEnroe controversy.

Williams has said similar things in the past, and in 1998 she played an exhibition match and lost to the 203rd-ranked male player

 

Optimus Prime

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From Megan Rapinoe
==================
.....But there are efforts across the country to ban transgender kids from participating in school sports. Already this year, lawmakers in more than 25 states have introduced legislation to ban transgender young people from sports.

Mississippi enacted a law this month requiring schools to designate teams by gender assigned at birth. Efforts elsewhere are progressing.
These bills are some of the most intense political assaults on LGBTQ people in recent years. Sports have become another avenue to attack the rights of trans people.

These efforts cause incredible harm to trans youth, who, like all kids in a global pandemic, are feeling isolated and need compassion and support. Even before the pandemic hit, 1 in 3 transgender youth reported attempting suicide, as one national crisis-prevention organization reported in 2019.

These bills are attempting to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. Transgender kids want the opportunity to play sports for the same reasons other kids do: to be a part of a team where they feel like they belong. Proponents of these bills argue that they are protecting women.

As a woman who has played sports my whole life, I know that the threats to women’s and girls’ sports are lack of funding, resources and media coverage; sexual harassment; and unequal pay.

I know what it feels like to be singled out and treated differently. No one should be treated unfairly because of who they are — and that is especially true of kids.

Adults can’t pretend that we care about the well-being of children while actively creating environments that cause serious harm to them. We can’t make demands for a false sense of fairness while ignoring the actual needs of women and girls...........

 

J-Donk

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McEnroy says she would be around 700 overall. That in my opinion is pretty insulting. But I also know nothing about tennis, and he does.

That's about right. John took a lot grief for it, but the power difference is insane. The Williams sisters played a man ranked around 200 in the late 90's, and lost handily. I have no idea why people always bring up tennis. Maybe because it's the only major sport with an equality of pay.

Also, the argument for getting rid of anti-doping is the prevalence of cheating. It's the "haves" with the means to circumvent testing with designer drugs, like Balco. For the Olympics, this at the level of state sponsored labs. For a good idea at the scale on this look at the number of weightlifting, and track records that have been disqualified.

I really don't think most people understand the scale of doping. It's not even people chasing records, IMO. Do people really think QB's, and tennis players suddenly being able to play into their 40's has nothing to do with pharmacology?

I think it would be very interesting to have a juiced Olympics, and see how many records are beaten.
 
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That's about right. John took a lot grief for it, but the power difference is insane. The Williams sisters played a man ranked around 200 in the late 90's, and lost handily. I have no idea why people always bring up tennis. Maybe because it's the only major sport with an equality of pay.

Also, the argument for getting rid of anti-doping is the prevalence of cheating. It's the "haves" with the means to circumvent testing with designer drugs, like Balco. For the Olympics, this at the level of state sponsored labs. For a good idea at the scale on this look at the number of weightlifting, and track records that have been disqualified.

I really don't think most people understand the scale of doping. It's not even people chasing records, IMO. Do people really think QB's, and tennis players suddenly being able to play into their 40's has nothing to do with pharmacology?

I think it would be very interesting to have a juiced Olympics, and see how many records are beaten.

I don’t think there is a coincidence that the richest player in NFL history by good margin has also played the longest. But I cannot fully exclude the possibility of a magic vajayjay.
 

superchuck500

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Florida House advances a bill that requires high school athletes to participate according to their biological gender and would give high school athletics administrators a right of genital inspection of individual athletes.

 

DaveXA

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Florida House advances a bill that requires high school athletes to participate according to their biological gender and would give high school athletics administrators a right of genital inspection of individual athletes.


Well, Florida gon Florida. :covri:
 

guidomerkinsrules

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Florida House advances a bill that requires high school athletes to participate according to their biological gender and would give high school athletics administrators a right of genital inspection of individual athletes.

fix a barely existent problem with sexual assault lawsuits...k
as the ability to motivate the base narrows, the hate/fear that fuels it will increase
 

HoustonSaint68

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Funny stuff.

Sometimes for grins, I imagine watching South Park with some of the...hmmm...shall we say, predictably aggressive posters here from both sides. You know, the ones who likely laugh uproariously at half the jokes and go deathly quiet at the other half.

God, I love Trey Parker and Matt Stone. The Shakespeares of our age.
 

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