Trans athletes make great gains, yet resentment still flares (3 Viewers)

I think the biggest issue is that we conflate sex and gender when they should probably be two separate constructs.
I think the biggest issue is that we conflate sex and gender when they should probably be two separate constructs.
Totally agree with one nit-picking (I think) exception: biological sex is not a "construct", it's simply fact.
 
Totally agree with one nit-picking (I think) exception: biological sex is not a "construct", it's simply fact.
Well, it's not a "construct", but it's also not as simple as black and white no matter how you slice it. There's trisomy, hermaphroditism, intersex states, and so forth that present "gray areas" even to the "binary" system.
 
Well, it's not a "construct", but it's also not as simple as black and white no matter how you slice it. There's trisomy, hermaphroditism, intersex states, and so forth that present "gray areas" even to the "binary" system.
People are born with birth defects all the time, which hardly undermines the notion that sex is a “fact” not a construct. What you’re describing are extreme, and rare, abnormalities. People can be born without eyes, but that doesn’t mean that sight is a construct.
 
Very, very, VERY basically: gender is a construct of culture, which over many centuries and in most cultures has assigned strict cultural gender roles based on biological sex (i.e. what's between your legs), leading to unequal treatment and opportunity based on genitalia.

In a culture without such a mad focus on someone's genitalia to determine "how they're supposed to act" and which allows them to rub such consenting genitalia wherever they want to without hassle, presumably there would be no need for sex change since the underlying cause for gender disphoria would be removed.

So the whole thing is nuts, but not in the way many folks think. What's crazy is that people have to mutilate and inflict pharmalogical havoc upon themselves, because they're trying to match their genitalia with the gender roles forced upon them by the society we live in.

Imho, of course.

Except it has to do with a lot more than genitalia. There’s hormones. There’s skeletal and muscular anatomy. There’s differences in the brain. Oh, and there’s the fact that only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Moreover, if it’s all cultural, how does one explain the different roles played by males and females in the animal kingdom?
 
How does gender being a fluid construct of culture figure into allowing people born of the male sex to compete against people born of the female sex? Why is it that we use gender as a deciding factor on competitive balance rather than sex?
 
Except it has to do with a lot more than genitalia. There’s hormones. There’s skeletal and muscular anatomy. There’s differences in the brain. Oh, and there’s the fact that only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Moreover, if it’s all cultural, how does one explain the different roles played by males and females in the animal kingdom?
What "it" do you think I was referring to in my "very, very, VERY basic" comment in response to someone who professed confusion regarding gender? And I never said that anything, much less any particular "it", was "all cultural". What I said was:

- that: "gender is a construct of culture";
-
that such culture constructs: "over many centuries and in most cultures has assigned strict cultural gender roles based on biological sex...leading to unequal treatment and opportunity based on genitalia;
-
that: "in a culture without such a mad focus on someone's genitalia to determine [strict gender roles]...presumably there would be no need for sex change since the underlying cause for gender disphoria would be removed.

The first two points seem awfully evident. The third is just my opinion and perhaps simplistic overstatement, and I'd be happy to hear a counter-view specific to that point. Or, tell me what it is that I posted that you specifically disagree with. But implying that I said more than I did and arguing against that illusory "it" doesn't really advance the conversation.
 
So I posted my opinion on the sports thing at Post #623 so no need to repeat here.

And just like you, I would love to have a back and forth conversation with a number of trans people to understand the issue better, as I have in the past with others on issues of race, religion and abortion. But, in my very limited experience with the few trans people I know, the issue is so unbelievably raw and personal that there is no way that wouldn't be a trainwreck of a conversation, particularly since I know they would disagree with my point of view.
My POV would be irrelevant so I wouldn't even try to share it. I'd mainly want to know how they justify the sports thing to themselves, why keep your old parts, what does a woman 'feel' like to you (that's a big one for me), etc.

When I don't understand something, it drives me bananas. I wouldn't necessarily walk away agreeing with them, but I live for those, "Ohhhhhhhh, I get it now," moments.
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On a related note - I went to Sephora (make-up store) and there was a young guy with a long skirt, boots, jewelry, etc. He was clearly a dude to me. He asked if I found everything ok and I said, "Yes sir, I'm fine."

He gave me the biggest stank face ever. I can still see the scowl and his pointy little nose. It took the whole ride home for me to figure out what his problem was, but I think it was the "sir."

I've been saying yes ma'am and no sir my entire life. I don't know how to trick my brain into not saying it.
 
I think the biggest issue is that we conflate sex and gender when they should probably be two separate constructs.
I've definitely been using them interchangeably. When they say 'gender-affirming surgery', that does nothing to help with the disctinction.
 
What "it" do you think I was referring to in my "very, very, VERY basic" comment in response to someone who professed confusion regarding gender? And I never said that anything, much less any particular "it", was "all cultural". What I said was:

- that: "gender is a construct of culture";
-
that such culture constructs: "over many centuries and in most cultures has assigned strict cultural gender roles based on biological sex...leading to unequal treatment and opportunity based on genitalia;
-
that: "in a culture without such a mad focus on someone's genitalia to determine [strict gender roles]...presumably there would be no need for sex change since the underlying cause for gender disphoria would be removed.

The first two points seem awfully evident. The third is just my opinion and perhaps simplistic overstatement, and I'd be happy to hear a counter-view specific to that point. Or, tell me what it is that I posted that you specifically disagree with. But implying that I said more than I did and arguing against that illusory "it" doesn't really advance the conversation.

"it" = gender (although I'm not a fan of that term, insofar as it refers to an "identity" distinct from biological sex)

But it's not at all evident at all that gender is a construct of culture. We know that men and women are different, biologically, in very important ways. Also, across civilizations, the roles of women and men are similar (although not without variation, obviously). Isn't it possible, if not likely, that the traditional roles of men and women arose from nature?

And I don't think that it's unequal treatment or opportunity that is causing gender dysphoria. If so, it would have been much more prominent in earlier times. It would also be much more prominent today in countries that maintain traditional gender/sex roles. Men and women have never been treated more equally than they are in the west today, and there has never been a time when the opportunities for men and women have been so equal. And yet, it's almost entirely a contemporary western phenomenon.
 
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Except it has to do with a lot more than genitalia. There’s hormones. There’s skeletal and muscular anatomy. There’s differences in the brain. Oh, and there’s the fact that only women can be pregnant and give birth.

Moreover, if it’s all cultural, how does one explain the different roles played by males and females in the animal kingdom?
I love watching nature shows. Especially ones on the big cats. But I get sooooo mad when the momma is left with all the bad cubs. Rough-housing, trying to bite her tail, wandering off near the hyenas.

Then they cut to the daddy, laying up in the shade, lazily swatting flies away from his butt. 🤬
 
I love watching nature shows. Especially ones on the big cats. But I get sooooo mad when the momma is left with all the bad cubs. Rough-housing, trying to bite her tail, wandering off near the hyenas.

Then they cut to the daddy, laying up in the shade, lazily swatting flies away from his butt. 🤬
Yeah...but...if you watch some other nature shows on the big cats, that alpha male's life always ends in the the same general way, and it ain't good. :hihi:
 
Let's return back to the female skate boarder Taylor Silverman. Should she have any recourse other than the jeers from many people on twitter telling her to 'get good'?
 

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