Trans athletes make great gains, yet resentment still flares (9 Viewers)

[kizzy821]

of course i see the advantage and have said so many times (and have also included that birth sex is not the only factor in competitive advantage as it would be fairly easy to find women who could out compete any man in this thread)
BUT, practically there are only two options present (i've already explained why i didn't think the 'third' option was feasible atm and probably never)
- allow trans girls to compete according to their identity (YES, i understand that this disadvantages >.05% of biological girl athletes)
- ban participation according to identity

it's an apples to oranges comparison
but i'm putting more ethical weight behind the chance to participate (and accepting identity) than i am winning (and denying identity)

You care more about trans women than women women. I see.

Not being facetious at all. I legitimately understand now. You don't have to explain anything else.

 

[JenningsTruckers]

@JenningsTruckers my insert quotes function isn't working for some reason, but I had to look that up to make sure it wasn't an article from the Onion. Look at the grin on his face. Awwww... He just wanted the right to compete

(did you make it so that people can't quote you? Is that a profile option?! Tell me, lol. I can quote everyone else)

It's an article in Dailymail.co.uk , it's on today , you can look it up .

 

[JenningsTruckers]

@JenningsTruckers my insert quotes function isn't working for some reason, but I had to look that up to make sure it wasn't an article from the Onion. Look at the grin on his face. Awwww... He just wanted the right to compete

(did you make it so that people can't quote you? Is that a profile option?! Tell me, lol. I can quote everyone else)

I thought you would be interested in seeing the article , kinda shows that majority of people think this is just wrong no matter how you try to except it

 

[SaintInBucLand]

You care more about trans women than women women. I see.

Not being facetious at all. I legitimately understand now. You don't have to explain anything else.

I just saw tweet saying... Trans women are just sparkly misogynists

 

[Sun Wukong]

It's an article in Dailymail.co.uk , it's on today , you can look it up .

Trans issues aside, what kind of competition allows grown arse adults to compete with middle schoolers?

 

[Icon]

A male who is 5'10'' will literally never play Center in the NBA, regardless of how athletic he may be and how much he grew up idolizing Shaq as a kid.

A family that brings in a total of $70,000 annual income (barring some lottery hit or inheritance windfall) isn't about to live in a neighborhood where houses start at $800,000.

"Inclusive" doesn't necessarily have to entail entitlement.

 

[sfidc3]

Trans issues aside, what kind of competition allows grown arse adults to compete with middle schoolers?

Skateboarding and to an extent surfing are a little different…..you often have 14–18 year old kids competing (and sometimes winning) against 20-35 year olds….

 

[SystemShock]

A male who is 5'10'' will literally never play Center in the NBA, regardless of how athletic he may be and how much he grew up idolizing Shaq as a kid.

A family that brings in a total of $70,000 annual income (barring some lottery hit or inheritance windfall) isn't about to live in a neighborhood where houses start at $800,000.

"Inclusive" doesn't necessarily have to entail entitlement.

That's a really good line. Ama gonna steal it

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

alright, i was already going to ease out of the thread
we're all just speaking past each other at this point
and arguing with posters i enjoy (even ones who chose to be stunningly rude for some reason)
and this soon after the recent scotus nonsense, it's just not worth it
if a new development pops back up im sure i'll slide in
until then...

 

[kizzy821]

I just saw tweet saying... Trans women are just sparkly misogynists

Lord knows I try not to be Man Bashing Mary, but everywhere you look, they're raising hell.

It's hard for me to comment on the state of the world without commenting on the primary agitators.

If most of society's ills (war, crime, etc.) were being committed by Asian women over 60 - would no one point that out; would that fact not be part of the conversation?

Anyway, ever since I've become aware of the issue with trans athletes, I've been acutely aware that the "movement" is unintentionally (?) male-centric.

To tell women they need to disregard and ignore notions of fairness (after they fought for it over GENERATIONS); to embrace men who identify as one of you, yet want to compete AGAINST you... It's downright vile.

And I honestly don't know if they even realize it.

 

[kizzy821]

Trans issues aside, what kind of competition allows grown arse adults to compete with middle schoolers?

The article said all skill levels were welcome to compete together (all ages) but the teams were divided into male/female.

So that 13-year-old girl would have beat everyone, regardless of their age, if not for the dude.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

alright, i was already going to ease out of the thread
we're all just speaking past each other at this point
and arguing with posters i enjoy (even ones who chose to be stunningly rude for some reason)
and this soon after the recent scotus nonsense, it's just not worth it
if a new development pops back up im sure i'll slide in
until then...

The frustration with your points is that you acknowledge the advantage yet continue to rail against those of us who are against it because of the trans persons desire to be included and feel that women need to suck it up and be at a disadvantage for inclusivity sake.

To echo Kizzy’s sentiments, every time someone is told/needs suck it up for the sake of everyone else, it’s the women.

Fork that. We are tired.

 

[Crzycjunx76]

I just saw tweet saying... Trans women are just sparkly misogynists

This battle is frankly something we as a society need to "shelve" for the moment.
Yes it is important and needs to be discussed. No there is no easy solution... but it is being fought by two disadvantaged groups, pitting them against eachother when solidarity is needed. The powers that be are hard at work taking the rights away from both of them. From all of us.

It is going to take all the voices of the disadvantaged and their allies among the advantaged to fight to keep us from backsliding as a society.

Yes there will be legitimate issues between us... but those will be used as wedges to keep us fighting amongst ourselves while our rights and representation are eroded.

One thing I have seen throughout this thread is even disagreeing on details... we all want people of all stripes to have rights, representation, respect, and fair treatment. We disagree on the details, but if we continue to let that consume our attention while the very basis of our rights are being destroyed, we are going to find the details of little consequence.

When Sally has no right to their body, or contraception, and T-Sally has no right to live as their gender, when Steve cannot marry who they love independent of gender, when reinstituted sodomy laws make private sexual preference a crime... all of this will be moot.

I am not in a disadvantaged group but I am an ally... I also have a biological daughter with they/them identity who is bisexual and both my children are of mixed descent. Even though I have been an ally long before their birth, 20+ years, I have allowed things like economic concerns to sway me into siding with forces who have not always been liberty minded because I viewed rights, once defined as constitutional, as immutable. Clearly I was mistaken.

I know many who are not allies though, both those who are in the power structure... and those who are deluded into believing they are saving the nation by religous or economic dogmatic doomsayers. Moved to blind idolotry and convinced that anyone who disagrees with the demagogues they follow, are bent on their destruction.

They are united on single threads... but those single threads bring them into lockstep on a myriad of issues, even ones they might oppose individually... deluded and blinded to the destruction they wreak to the fabric of freedom and the survival of the republic or not they have conviction and focus, decades of cultural messaging brought this about.

They stand united, but they are NOT the majority... the majority, who wants liberty, justice, opportunity, and fairness for all, is not united. Our "big tent" is a battleground". Our infighting over the minutiae, villifying one another over disagreements, all or nothing arguments making enenimies of allies... has put that liberty at risk, our nation at risk.

The sanctity of individual rights is the single thread that should unite us. It is the single most important Ideal our nation holds, and though it has not always been universally and fairly applied... we have made hard fought, though sometimes glacial, progress. That progress is eroding, we are backsliding... and are poised to do so at an alarming rate. We need to put aside our differences, not alienate potential allies... even those who may who we know have been deluded into opposing liberty that we know are fair minded... instead of attacking them for being part of the problem we need show them they can be part of the solution. We have a single thread issue worth eschewing all other concerns, perhaps the only issue sufficiently important to do so.

If any individual can be denied their rights, then no ones rights are secure. No one.

I dream of a nation with civil political discourse even on impassioned issues. A nation where understanding, finding common ground, and comprimise, which are necessary for a healthy nation and good governance, are norms, ... but we are facing extremism, a cult that has grown right in front of us, objective pleas and reason are drowned out by dogma in the echo chamber that have become timples to false idols.

We are the (fractured) majority, but if we do not see the threat and the urgent need to act as a unified majority... we will find our numbers dwindling as the liberty we hold dear is villified, criminilized, marginilized... and as societal norms shift, the message of the echo chamber will become the prevalant message of our society... taught in schools, as the theme in everything from the news, to commercials, to kids cartoons. Thus shifting the majorty from a democratic/liberty mindset to a theocratic/autocracy, and our nation will be lost forever.

This, is the greatest threat our republic has faced since the Civil War. Not any world war, or cold war... not the threat of nuclear annilation... we have have had periods where we lacked liberty for women, different races, sexual orientation, etc, but we have climbed, struggled, fought, and grown...this is the closest we have been to the fall of liberty.

Sorry for the rambling rant... I could go forever on this... but I will stop there.

 

[Crzycjunx76]

Actually one more lengthy bit.

Barry Goldwater, often considered the consummate conservative of his time, and a proud Republican, was quoted as saying.

Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them.

'The uncompromising position of these groups is a divisive element that could tear apart the very spirit of our representative system if they gain sufficient strength

“The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I’m frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in ‘A,’ ‘B,’ ‘C’ and ‘D.’ Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of ‘conservatism.'”

He lost his fight, but he issued the warning.

What I dont think he saw coming... was the blending of ideas secular and religous. That political leaders, interested only in power, that were hardly religous would hijack religion and blend conservative ideas, in no way based in christianity, into becomeing defacto religous convictions themselves.

That by the blending of religion and politics a monster would be created in no way Christian(christ-like)... and in no way Republican(as he knew it) that would become a religion unto itself with voters worshiping their elected officials and taking their words as god given fact... as scripture. That political platforms, even on issues so far removed from anything religous, would become uncomprimisible dogma, unable to evolve... any opposition viewed as evil and un-American... even when conflicting with our core tennants of liberty.

Edit: The religous right has become a religion... but it has nothing to do with christian ideals. It is about power and opression, using the absolute of faith to villify and silence dissenters.

Again sorry, didnt mean to monologe... but this is important. Feel free to ignore and continue, but we are arguing about the floral arrangement in the dining room while the house is burning.

 

[flygirl]

It's an article in Dailymail.co.uk , it's on today , you can look it up .

The article said all skill levels were welcome to compete together (all ages) but the teams were divided into male/female.

So that 13-year-old girl would have beat everyone, regardless of their age, if not for the dude.

I watched the entire YouTube interview with the trans skater. The question i wish the interviewer had asked is, "Why do you think you should have the right to compete against biological women?"