Trans athletes make great gains, yet resentment still flares (8 Viewers)

[CapitalCitySaint]

Am I wrong? I'm a statistics person. Every single measurable outcome show that trans women, particularly black trans women have the worse outcomes (job rights, health rights, threat of violence) of any particular group. Is that not an accurate statistic?

Trans women have it worse than *some* women.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

I am sure not all women feel that way... but by all means... As a Man, you should continue to tell them how they should feel on these issues.. women LOVE that!

This is also correct and I'm aware of the problem this poses.

 

[kizzy821]

And that is what I'm trying to do here. If you can provide real alternatives or show the harm in the things I care about to cis girls, then I'll adjust. But the reason why I support youth sports and also female youth sports is because it's been shown to help create better kids. I have not seen how allowing trans kids to compete as women changes that. If all you care about is the trophies, then we're obviously done with it, b/c youth sports is not about winning trophies to me.




And this is another huge difference. You see them as dudes invading your space. I don't view them as men. I get not viewing them as women, but they literally enjoy none of the advantages that are afforded to me. I don't think you're attacking me here, or men. I think you're denying help to a disadvantaged group. They don't get to walk into the spaces I do and dominate the room, get the high salary, just have people listen to me just because I'm guy. They have worse health and salary outcomes than men or women, they are more prone to rape and violence.

You seem to think they have all these great advantages and just want more. I do not believe that is the case.

We were done (with any serious discussion) when you hysterically declared I wanted kids to die.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

Trans women could still have the option of pretending to be a CIS dude for employment purposes and sports purposes and immediately have an advantage. Women who have it worse than some trans women, can’t do that.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Trans women have it worse than *some* women.

Yes, and women have it worse off than *some* men. Caitlyn Jenner lives an incredibly privileged life, better than most of us. But statistically, trans women are more likely to be raped, killed, fired, denied health care than any other statistical category.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Trans women could still have the option of pretending to be a CIS dude for employment purposes and sports purposes and immediately have an advantage. Women who have it worse than some trans women, can’t do that.

Which is why I went back to the what does it tell you that they don't. Because they'd rather die than live that way... which is why they are in a different category than cis men. I can just walk around and feel great all the time. They have to either live in a way that makes them want to kill themselves or live in a way that makes other people mock them and increase their chances of being killed.

And again, if you can show me that allowing trans girls to compete in youth sports as girls effects cis girls mental health or their ability to learn and grow from youth sports, then I'd focus more on alternatives, b/c I don't value one group over another.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

Yes, and women have it worse off than *some* men. Caitlyn Jenner lives an incredibly privileged life, better than most of us. But statistically, trans women are more likely to be raped, killed, fired, denied health care than any other statistical category.

She does because she had the advantage of establishing herself first as a man.

 

[kizzy821]

Yes, and women have it worse off than *some* men. Caitlyn Jenner lives an incredibly privileged life, better than most of us. But statistically, trans women are more likely to be raped, killed, fired, denied health care than any other statistical category.

And letting them pummel girls in sports competitions will help rectify this.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

And letting them pummel girls in sports competitions will help rectify this.

It is my belief (based on the statistics that I've cited and talking with trans kids and cis girls actually participating in sports right now) that allowing trans girls to compete in youth sports as girls will help them become functioning adults without harming cis girls. It is certainly not perfect, but it is better than the current alternative.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

Which is why I went back to the what does it tell you that they don't. Because they'd rather die than live that way... which is why they are in a different category than cis men. I can just walk around and feel great all the time. They have to either live in a way that makes them want to kill themselves or live in a way that makes other people mock them and increase their chances of being killed.

And again, if you can show me that allowing trans girls to compete in youth sports as girls effects cis girls mental health or their ability to learn and grow from youth sports, then I'd focus more on alternatives, b/c I don't value one group over another.

As if women haven’t killed themselves over their forced existence & won’t kill themselves or die over this new forced existence with less rights than guns in this shirt hole.

As if women haven’t been/aren’t forced into arranged marriages, abusive marriages, procreate when they don’t want to, sit by and watch their husbands take on multiple wives while they are stuck at home with all the brats they were forced to create, raped and slaughtered, sold into slavery & sex slavery, killed for wanting a divorce from a marriage they were forced into, killed for cheating, not allowed to work, not allowed to own ish or have their own bank account, not allowed to vote. Man I could go on and on.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

As if women haven’t killed themselves over their forced existence & won’t kill themselves or die over this new forced existence with less rights than guns in this shirt hole.

As if women haven’t been/aren’t forced into arranged marriages, abusive marriages, procreate when they don’t want to, sit by and watch their husbands take on multiple wives while they are stuck at home with all the brats they were forced to create, raped and slaughtered, sold into slavery & sex slavery, killed for wanting a divorce from a marriage they were forced into, killed for cheating, not allowed to work, not allowed to own ish or have their own bank account, not allowed to vote. Man I could go on and on.

I'm not understanding this comment. I know that, I've already referenced it. Does allowing trans girls to compete on youth sports as girls contribute to this or increase this behavior? I believe participating in youth sports helps stop this sort of thing and increases a kids resiliency - again, which is why if you show me that allowing trans girls to participate in youth sports as girls takes away cis girls participation in the benefits that youth sports provide, I will change my stance.

 

[CapitalCitySaint]

I'm not understanding this comment. I know that, I've already referenced it. Does allowing trans girls to compete on youth sports as girls contribute to this or increase this behavior?

Your insistence that trans people have it worse than women and want to kill themselves over it.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

Your insistence that trans people have it worse than women and want to kill themselves over it.

I'm saying statistically that trans women are more prone to being raped and murdered, denied health care and fired than women is a fact. This does not mean that women also haven't been screwed throughout history and are still being screwed today. I made the point originally because of the sense that I get from you/kizzy/ etc that trans women are these super privileged men that are invading women's spaces. I'm saying they are disadvantaged group without the privileges of cis men and they are seeking refuge in women's spaces. That doesn't mean I think you have to accept them (or that you need my permission to not accept them), or you're a bad person for not accepting them or anything like that. I'm not trying to insert myself into that, and I'm certainly not in a position to understand that at all. I am saying that it would be helpful if you didn't look at them as men in terms of privilege and power, because they don't have that.

 

[Infoman]

“statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.”

 

[Yatman]

utj, is it your assertion that trans girls in (apparently noncompetitive) youth sports will simply relinquish their special inclusion once high school begins; with trophies, records, and scholarships of great relevance to sporting cis girls?