Trans athletes make great gains, yet resentment still flares (4 Viewers)

[Complex Kid]

 

[Dallas_Saint73]

So, the guy above recently competed in a women's powerlifting competition. Anyone care to guess how he fared against the women?

I am a competitive powerlifter in the USAPL and this is a very controversial topic currently. The USAPL is the largest powerlifting federation in the US, so this is being watched by many- including politicians who champion for transgender fairness/equality.

The flashpoint of the debate is regarding males who have transitioned to females wishing to compete in female weight classes. The push from biological women lifters is that this would be unfair competition as males (on average, not speaking exceptional cases) tend to have more testosterone and other biological advantages as it relates to the sport of powerlifting (body composition, leverages, and other factors that favor top performance regarding the big three lifts- squats/bench/deadlifts).

I have yet to see this use case play out on the platform, so who really knows how much of a difference this will make. There are some VERY strong female lifters- some that can out lift men in their respective classes- but that is not a norm, and more of an exception. It is definitely an interesting time for powerlifting. The current stance from the chairs/board is to not allow transitioned males to compete within female classes. I expect that that USAPL will maintain its current stance despite pressure from advocacy groups, political pressure, etc.

The USAPL is also a drug-free federation, this means that for those who are using androgens to aid in a transition from female to male, would have to be excluded from competition altogether since testosterone and other androgens are banned substances (we follow WADA guidelines).

Transgender Participation Policy - USA Powerlifting

www.usapowerlifting.com

 

[Goatman Saint]

Not sure this I could support. If her natural body runs higher in testosterone for whatever reason then I think it is wholly unfair for her to have to change that. However, the trans in sports I don’t agree with. The foundational differences between women and men cannot be undone, unless surgery was done before puberty to not allow puberty and the changes to happen.

 

[SystemShock]

 

[SystemShock]

I was going to start a different thread, but I guess I can put it here...

This is something XY's don't have to deal with at all, cisgender or transgender.

Track Star Allyson Felix Criticises Nike Maternity Policy | Athletics News

Allyson Felix, who gave birth to a baby girl in December, said she had decided to start a family last year despite anxiety over negotiations concerning the renewal of her Nike sponsorship deal that expired at the end of 2017.

sports.ndtv.com

Olympic track and field star Allyson Felix joined a chorus of recent criticism against Nike on Wednesday, accusing the US sporting goods giant of penalizing female athletes who took time off to have a child.

"They told stories we athletes know are true, but have been too scared to tell publicly: If we have children, we risk pay cuts from our sponsors during pregnancy and afterward," Felix wrote in the Times.

However Felix said that when she requested guarantees that she would not be penalized if she performed below her best "in the months surrounding childbirth," Nike baulked.

The article goes to say that Nike as vowed to do something about it, but we'll see.

 

[Yatman]

If my teenage daughter was competing against a teenage boy undergoing hormone therapy I'm not sure I'd consider that a fair competition. I consider that a good faith question that has to do with biology, not "transphobic resentment."

Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

"Mentally and physically, we know the outcome before the race even starts,” said Smith, who is the daughter of former Major League pitcher Lee Smith. “That biological unfairness doesn’t go away because of what someone believes about gender identity. All girls deserve the chance to compete on a level playing field.”

 

[Infoman]

Dear insane people... you reap what you sew... Signed, everyone that has ever taken a biology class, and knows Males and Females are generally... and way more often than not.... NOT created equal from a physical perspective.

 

[tenordas]

Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes

If legislators have any sense (which seems rarer and rarer these days), they will simply create a third category for the races: Men, Women, and Trans. That way, the trans kids can still compete, but the physical inequality is removed in fairness to the female runners. Letting the situation continue status quo is grossly unfair, but not letting the trans compete isn't fair, either. Give them their own category. That's basically what they ask for in most other areas, so just go ahead and do it here.

 

[SaintInBucLand]

If legislators have any sense (which seems rarer and rarer these days), they will simply create a third category for the races: Men, Women, and Trans. That way, the trans kids can still compete, but the physical inequality is removed in fairness to the female runners. Letting the situation continue status quo is grossly unfair, but not letting the trans compete isn't fair, either. Give them their own category. That's basically what they ask for in most other areas, so just go ahead and do it here.

That's too much like separate but equal and is a slap in the face of trans-athletes. If a person identifies as female and you tell them they cannot participate in female sports, you are pretty much telling them they are not female.

 

[SystemShock]

That's too much like separate but equal and is a slap in the face of trans-athletes. If a person identifies as female and you tell them they cannot participate in female sports, you are pretty much telling them they are not female.

Physiologically, they aren't. That's just the reality of life.

 

[SaintInBucLand]

Physiologically, they aren't. That's just the reality of life.

This is by no means for everyone. I know many biological females who are much stronger and faster than many biological males.

 

[Dago]

This is by no means for everyone. I know many biological females who are much stronger and faster than many biological males.

basing opinions or rules off exceptions and not the vast majority (and what is accepted science) is not the way to go

 

[rajncajn]

I know many biological females who are much stronger and faster than many biological males.

I'd be willing to bet that any female athlete could smoke me on a track, lift more than me, you name it, I have no doubt they would outperform me. That doesn't mean that I don't have natural, physiological advantages that they can never possess. Put us on a level playing field, with the same amount of training, the large majority of them wouldn't stand a chance.

 

[SystemShock]

This is by no means for everyone.

Does the individual have a uterus?
Yes = individual is female.
No = individual is not female.

Of course, there are abnormal cases, (hermafrodites, intersexed), so it doesn't apply to everyone, but it does apply to the overwhelming majority of individuals.

I know many biological females who are much stronger and faster than many biological males.

Sure. We all know them. However, in sports competition, individuals are matched as close as possible to their physiological and skill equals. That's why fighting sports, for example, have weight classes that differ by 5 lbs. of body weight.

So sure, Amanda Nunes, at 145 lbs, she can probably kick the arse of most any man you know. But if she goes against Max Holloway, she gets destroyed.

 

[coldseat]

I wonder how many girls sporting events this is even an issue in? It seems like we spend a lot of time debating this, but it doesn't seem like there are that many school aged transgender girls in sports.

I also wonder in what percentage of girls sporting events where transgender girls participate in that they end up winning the competition.

I haven't read through the whole thread, so I don't know if this information is already out there, but maybe adding some metrics would help clarify how big of a problem this actually is or isn't.