Trendy Myths? (1 Viewer)

brianw37

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
VIP Contributor
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
643
Location
orange park, fla
Offline
Buying into latest myth can get teams burned

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD align=left>
kirwansmall.jpg
</TD><TD width=10></TD><TD noWrap>By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Every so often, an apparent new trend pops up in the NFL that gets its legs for some unfounded reason. And it usually involves a concept that teams can get by with inferior players at a certain position.
As one GM said to me at the owners' meetings this week, "I hope the latest myth floating around here lasts until after the draft, because I want a certain position to fall to me." Another GM looked at me and laughed when I asked him what he thought of the latest myth.
<TABLE width=230 align=right><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>I expect five players to be drafted in the first round at the position some people with a straight face now claim isn't that important -- cornerback. If teams pass on them because they buy into the new myth, they might regret it.
Before we get to the new concept floating around The Breakers hotel this week, here are two other ridiculous myths that have circulated around the NFL in recent years:
Myth No. 1: Just manage the game. After Trent Dilfer led the Baltimore Ravens to a Super Bowl championship the idea that a team really didn't need a great quarterback to win it all started circulating. The myth said that a QB who could manage the game was good enough as long as the defense was above par. That myth caused a few teams to skip on quarterbacks like Drew Brees and Ben Roethlisberger. The fact is, the quarterback position is the most important one on the field. Sooner or later, every offense is going to have to run a two-minute drill to pull out a win and no manage-the-game guy can do that consistently in the heat of battle.
Myth No. 2: Don't waste a first-round pick on a running back. The Broncos had great success with their running game with late-round backs like Terrell Davis and Mike Anderson, to name a few over the years. The prevailing thought was that other teams should be able to succeed with late-round picks, too. How do you think the six teams that passed on Adrian Peterson feel about that concept? The Broncos' offensive line was pretty darn good and maybe, just maybe, teams made a mistake on their evaluation of Terrell Davis.
Those two examples lead me to the myth of 2008:
Cornerbacks are only as good as the pass rush: The Giants' Super Bowl victory has led some teams to conclude it was exclusively the pass rush with a bunch of average guys behind them in coverage that helped New York shut down the vaunted Patriots' passing attack. This myth should fade quickly, but a number of people came up to me this week and tried to make a case for downgrading corners.
I made a few points as I heard the corner situation unfold in front of me:
1. You can't play Cover 2 all day and have corners play the flat area every down. All an offense has to do is put trips (three receivers) to one side and the opposite corner is all alone. As for the pass rush, a three-step drop and a ball directed at the receiver who is being single-covered takes the pass rush out of the equation.
2. Down in the red zone, the fade route to a tall receiver really means the corner has to make a play on the ball and the rush will not be a factor before the fade is thrown.

<CENTER>Cornering the market

</CENTER>Pat Kirwan has four cornerbacks being taken in his latest mock draft:

6. Jets: Leodis McKelvin, Troy
10. Saints: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Tennessee State
16. Cardinals: Aqib Talib, Kansas
27. Chargers: [URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/michaeljenkins/profile?id=JEN421393"]Michael Jenkins[/URL], South Florida

Kirwan's complete mock draft ...
3. Sometimes it's the jam of the corner on the receivers that sets up the pass rush.
4. Corey Webster is one of the Giants' corners who supposedly is just average. I asked Giants GM Jerry Reese about Webster and his first comment was, "Did you see the interception against the Packers?" Pass rush and corner play work hand in hand, just like an offensive line and a running back or a QB and his receivers.
I wonder who actually starts these myths. Is it the team that wants a corner to fall to them? Is it an outside observer who never coached or watched film? Or does someone actually believe you can get by with average guys?
Don't get me wrong, pass rush is a critical component to any football team, and the Giants' pass rush was great in Super Bowl XLII. But passing on a first-round corner later this month and reaching for a lower-graded pass rusher instead is dangerous business.
Chris Long (Virginia) and Vernon Gholston (Ohio State) will both be drafted before the first cornerback is taken because they are excellent football players. But soon after they come off the board, we will hear cornerbacks Leodis McKelvin, Aqib Talib, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie and Michael Jenkins called. Unless, of course, this latest myth has become a reality.
I doubt it.




i read this and my head almost exploded, sometimes a little truth will do that to ya:worthy:. all the pass rush in the world wont help if you dbs are weak i still think we should consider taking one with the tenth pick. i mean mm and craft are both over 30 and that leave us with gay, david and young, none of the three will be more than a nickle back in our scheme.(except maybe usama young)

how many times have teams just lined up and threw at the side not manned by mm and had great success aginst us? mm if healthy will probably play at a "probowl" level for 2-3 more years, what will we do then?
 
Last edited:
OP
brianw37

brianw37

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
VIP Contributor
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
643
Location
orange park, fla
Offline
it wont let me copy it so i just copied the whole article!
 

oodank

BIG DOG!
Joined
Jan 21, 2003
Messages
1,813
Reaction score
864
Offline
totally agree. the fact that most of the teams now employ some sort of a quick release passing game adds to the importance of having solid CBs.

we really need to secure another CB in the worst way!
 

BoNcHiE

Every team's Elixor
Joined
Dec 16, 2004
Messages
57,649
Reaction score
72,713
Offline
What he said sounds good, but the truth is somewhere inbetween.
 

Superfan

45th
Joined
Jul 10, 2001
Messages
9,691
Reaction score
3,539
Age
40
Location
Delta Quadrant
Offline
Well quick passes only net 5-6 yards sometimes and that eats time off the clock. Pass rush usually comes with a run stuffing defense as well. So if the team can't run the ball you have to stop over the top passes.
 

The Mongoose

Porkers?
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Messages
12,447
Reaction score
9,826
Offline
I disagree with his sentiment.

What he's not considering is that in order to draft one position, you must forgo drafting another position.

In his running back example, I totally disagree with what he says. It has been proven that you can find perfectly functional running backs later in the draft.

Regarding cornerbacks, drafting one in the early rounds is always risky. It's a hard position to evaluate. Drafting pass rushers and defensive linemen is a bit safer.

Obviously pass rush and db performance goes hand in hand. But the question becomes, do you want to draft a first round corner or a first round lineman? More often than not, the safer pick is the lineman.

Your mileage may vary...
 

UTSaintsFan

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
1,928
Reaction score
1,846
Offline
What he said sounds good, but the truth is somewhere inbetween.

Yeah you need both, a pass rush and cornerbacks. I am one to believe a pass rush is a bit more important though.

I checked the Giants secondary and it was't all that bad. They have more than a few playmakers back there.
New York Giants Depth Chart
 
OP
brianw37

brianw37

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
VIP Contributor
Joined
Feb 9, 2007
Messages
1,858
Reaction score
643
Location
orange park, fla
Offline
Yeah you need both, a pass rush and cornerbacks. I am one to believe a pass rush is a bit more important though.

I checked the Giants secondary and it was't all that bad. They have more than a few playmakers back there.
New York Giants Depth Chart

i agree, passrush is very improtant to any scheme. when i read comments like "a strong passrush will make a crappy secondary look good" im like what? have you been watching us the past two years? our secondary is very suspect to say the least. outside of mm none of our starters would start on any other team. when our passrush was good (06) we had 38 sacks as a team 26 of them was by our starting front four ws(10.5) cg(6) by(6)and hollis thomas(4). meanwhile the giants had 32 as team and 15 from their starting front four. we ranked 7th aginst the pass and near the bottom aginst the run. we all know being ranked seventh aginst the pass was kinda skewed because teams ran all over us. even that year when our passrush was good we gave up tons of big plays due mostly to lack of talent at the corner back spot. how many times did people just blow by fred thomas? in 07 we fliped the script we were good aginst the run and horrible aginst the pass! why? we failed to upgrade our secondary, mean while the giants drafted the jim thorpe award winning cornerback in the first round and the passrush exploded. my point is you have to have playmakers on both ends of the defense to be effective. when you have one side carrying the other you will get explioted. yes i do know that last year some of the giants were banged up just like this year some of our guys were banged up. but the starters on both sides of the lines remained the same. the giants upgraded the secondary and we all saw the difference. picking up these second and third teir guys like jason david and randall gay is not gonna cut it! i like randall gay but he was just an ok nickle back for new england and they have a great pass rush. my point is no matter how risky it seems 90% of the good/great cornerbacks in this leauge were first day picks, most of them in the first round. i keep hearing how safe a pick is over another or how much of a bust potential certain positions hold but honestly guys who ever wins just playing it safe all the time? sometimes u gotta take risks, u gotta gamble, and u gotta get lucky. it not always about making calculated desicions when it comes to the draft, it is in no way a perfect science! robert gallery and kenechi udeze were considered top picks and havent done much in the nfl to this date. yet some people had a third round grade on nnamdi, and nobody picked in marques colstons class is a better pro wideout. sometimes u just gotta gamble, and take a chance on a guy. i know theres not a perfect guy waiting for us to draft at ten but if ellis and dorsey are gone i say take drc and run with it.


as always good luck and go saints:hihi:
 

CCL36

Super Forum Fanatic
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Messages
6,904
Reaction score
1,463
Offline
I don't know what all this means but here are a few stats sacks/int sacks/ints

Interior DL sack totals

Clancy .5 sacks
Ant. Lake 1.0 sack
H. Thomas 3.0 sacks
B Young 3.0 sacks and now he is a year older comming back from an injury.
Orien, Boykin didn't see the field

DE sack totals

Josh Cooper .5 sacks
Josh Savage did not play
Charles Grant 2.5 sacks
Bobby McCray 3.0 sacks (with Jacksonville)
Will Smith 7.0 sacks


So the Interior DL had 7.5 Sacks all of last year


Colts 0 sacks L (0 int)
Tampa 0 sacks L (0 int)
Titans 0 sacks L (1 Int)
Carolina 1 sack (Will Smith) L (againts the sack machine D. Carr) L (1 Int)
SeaHawks 3 DL sacks (Thomas Young, Grant) + 2 from the Safety W (1Int)
Atlanta 2 sacks from the DL (Clancy .5, Young 1, Grant .5) W (an Absymal team) (0 Int)
SanFan 2 sacks from the DL (Young 1, Will Smith 1) W (0 int)
Jacksonville 2 sacks (R Wynn 1.5, J. Cooper .5) W (3 int)
Rams 2 sacks for the DL (Smith and Thomas) L (0 int)
Houston 1 sack (Will Smith) L (0 int)
Carolina 1 sack (A Lake) W (2 int)
Tampa 2 sacks for the DL (Wynn, Smith) L (no interior sacks) (1 int)
Atlanta 2 sacks for the DL (Thomas, Smith) L (1 int)
Cardinals 0 sacks for the DL W (1 int)
Eagles 3 sacks for DL (Wynn, Smith, Grant)(no interior sacks) L (0 int)
Bears 0 sacks L (1 int)

Games with no sacks from the interior line we went 2-8
Which means we went 5-1 when we had interior sacks
 
Last edited:

chrisandersen

The new section 152
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
2,839
Reaction score
1,076
Location
Northshore
Offline
That's because our LB's suck and can't dog and when we brought more, we got burned bad deep.
 

play action

All-Pro
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
Messages
1,953
Reaction score
520
Offline
even a good pass rush gets shut down sometimes. If the d line beats the o line the throw is going to have to be rushed, usually resulting in a inaccurate one, not good for the o. I don't know about kirwan but I'd take a stud d lineman in his prime over a stud cb in his prime, of course if I could have both,why not.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

 

New Orleans Saints Twitter Feed

 

Headlines

Top Bottom