"Trump is no outsider: he mirrors our political culture" (1 Viewer)

Alan

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/26/donald-trump-outsider-system-elections

Good read. Presents Trump as a symptom of all that's wrong in US politics, and there is a lot wrong with our political system.
Opinion.....everyone has one.

Gotta love the altruistic nature of the piece that attributes the Trump campaign towards the following quote:

Did Trump invent the xenophobia and racism that infuse his campaign? Did he invent his conspiracy theories about stolen elections and the criminality of his opponents? No. They were there all along. What is new and different about him is that he has streamlined these narratives into a virulent demagoguery. But the opportunity has been building for years; all that was required was someone blunt and unscrupulous enough to take it.

Translation:
Let us forget that a whacked out Hillary said those things.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dEOjGlctQGU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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saintmdterps

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Yes, everyone does indeed have an opinion. My opinion is that Trump exemplifies and is a product of a system so broken and corrupt that it will never change itself. As a result change will be forced on it from the outside.

"Democracy in the US is so corrupted by money that it is no longer recognisable as democracy. You can kick individual politicians out of office, but what do you do when the entire structure of politics is corrupt? Turn to the demagogue who rages into this political vacuum, denouncing the forces he exemplifies. The problem is not, as Trump claims, that the election will be stolen by ballot rigging. It is that the entire electoral process is stolen from the American people before they get anywhere near casting their votes. When Trump claims that the little guy is being screwed by the system, he&#8217;s right. The only problem is that he is the system."

Land of the free my ******* ***
 

WhoDatPhan78

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It's not even about money anymore.

It's about control over information.

You control the information that people access, you control their vote.

It is easier to do this with money, but it's not required.

It's still a democracy. The money people are only controlling the politicians through our votes.

Complain all we want about money, but we are still the filter through which power flows.
 

Saint_Ward

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I do wonder if our ease of access to information makes us more arrogant, but knowing less. "Oh, I can figure it out later"
 

WhoDatPhan78

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I do wonder if our ease of access to information makes us more arrogant, but knowing less. "Oh, I can figure it out later"

I think the amount of information available makes it easier to fall victim to confirmation bias, and just discounting sources of information that conflict with our bias.

the information age is quickly becoming the misinformation age.
 

Alan

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Yes, everyone does indeed have an opinion. My opinion is that Trump exemplifies and is a product of a system so broken and corrupt that it will never change itself. As a result change will be forced on it from the outside.

"Democracy in the US is so corrupted by money that it is no longer recognisable as democracy. You can kick individual politicians out of office, but what do you do when the entire structure of politics is corrupt? Turn to the demagogue who rages into this political vacuum, denouncing the forces he exemplifies. The problem is not, as Trump claims, that the election will be stolen by ballot rigging. It is that the entire electoral process is stolen from the American people before they get anywhere near casting their votes. When Trump claims that the little guy is being screwed by the system, he&#8217;s right. The only problem is that he is the system."

Land of the free my ******* ***
I attribute it more along the lines that the campaign itself is due in part because of the system. If it's not Trump then it would be someone else that would ride the crest of "enough is enough" and land in the White House.

When he is saying "the system is rigged" he isn't talking about just voter fraud. He is also referring to the political corruption and media spin. Spin so thick you could cut it with a knife and spread it on toast. I'm looking forward to after the election when the emotions dissipate and Americans can stop hating other Americans due to opinion. (Like that will ever happen/s) Although one can dream.
 

Alan

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I do wonder if our ease of access to information makes us more arrogant, but knowing less. "Oh, I can figure it out later"
This...so much this!
I could ramble on this topic for quiet a bit. Way to many examples of the general population that is completely oblivious to current events. Yet they are able to reproduce 10 second sound bytes they got from the media about what is wrong with a subject.

P.S. Sorry about the function....if I didn't like ya I wouldn't tease ya!

One part of the above sentence is incorrect.













Answer:
The sorry part! :ezbill:



Until next time people. Be safe and enjoy the day.
 

Saint_Ward

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This...so much this!
I could ramble on this topic for quiet a bit. Way to many examples of the general population that is completely oblivious to current events. Yet they are able to reproduce 10 second sound bytes they got from the media about what is wrong with a subject.

P.S. Sorry about the function....if I didn't like ya I wouldn't tease ya!

One part of the above sentence is incorrect.













Answer:
The sorry part! :ezbill:



Until next time people. Be safe and enjoy the day.
A lot of that comes with knowing the source. TV news over the last decade, especially CNN, and Fox News are after the Shiny Object. The local Miami news is very much "shiny object" oriented (and shiny object female reporters/anchors). I find more Print News media to be overall better quality and generally less likely to mislead via baiting headlines. NY Post is obviously the easy exception to that. Again, know the source.

But there is a reason misleading, shiny object, baiting headlines/topics are in use.. we eat that stuff up. It's like when you have kids and one kid is totally throwing the other one under the bus for something and you walk in there all ready to kick butt, come to find out the one who did the ratting really was the one who started crap. I take the same stance on misleading headlines or overly slanted articles. My anger quickly turns towards the original messenger who mislead me.

Where I think we disagree is that it doesn't mean the extreme counter point is correct. Odds are that's wrong too. The answer is that most of it - the extreme answers / views - are likely noise, and the answer is much ado about nothing. There are some challenges to that, though.

There is a lot of anger in politics, because there is anger in society. A lot of it is misplaced rage, however.

In a weird way, taking some of the hidden money out of politics, or putting it in somewhat plain site (Super PAC's), there is less incentive for politicians to cut deals, compromise, etc. Everything is out there, so they have to continually feed their base constant red meat. There is no incentive to educate, because it's too hard. They just need to misdirect and mislead like they've always done, but now they can't say all that and make the deal anyway, because they'll be found out. The incentive is to kick the can down the road, until they run into a wall that has to be navigated around temporarily.

I put that onus on us, the people. Yes, we have to have media, institutions, etc that we can trust to help us navigate the ocean of issues/information, but we need to demand it. We need to stop clicking on the shiny links. We need to stop letting ourselves get fired up about trivial crap. But that also means we need a well maintained bull crap detector primed and ready to go.

Trump is mirroring the ugly part of what happens when you ignore the populace for too long, or at least they feel ignored. That's mostly on Congress though. And that rage from being ignored is easy to misdirect. I'd also add, that while a good amount of what Trump has said or done deserves the negative reaction he gets.. a lot of it is just overblown, due to taking a guy who is rarely literal, too literally. He's not an elegant or exact speaker.
 

DavidM

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I attribute it more along the lines that the campaign itself is due in part because of the system. If it's not Trump then it would be someone else that would ride the crest of "enough is enough" and land in the White House.

When he is saying "the system is rigged" he isn't talking about just voter fraud. He is also referring to the political corruption and media spin. Spin so thick you could cut it with a knife and spread it on toast. I'm looking forward to after the election when the emotions dissipate and Americans can stop hating other Americans due to opinion. (Like that will ever happen/s) Although one can dream.
The longstanding, prevailing criticism of our political system is that it's a pay-to-play scheme, serving first the interests of the most wealthy. That makes it difficult to accept Trump as an actual, effectual outsider when he is garishly emblematic of the political puppet masters.

He's often called attention to his relationships with politicos over the years, including the Clintons, and the support and contributions he's given to the political system. He's not been rubbing elbows and making donations to the political offering plate to help you and me. So fine then, he's played in the system and personally benefited, but he's no outsider. And I absolutely do not believe he's running for the office because he's motivated by some higher calling to transform Washington for reasons that don't primarily benefit him and his.
 

RetroMcBananaFace

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I put that onus on us, the people. Yes, we have to have media, institutions, etc that we can trust to help us navigate the ocean of issues/information, but we need to demand it. We need to stop clicking on the shiny links. We need to stop letting ourselves get fired up about trivial crap. But that also means we need a well maintained bull crap detector primed and ready to go.
+10 million

People complain about "the media" but "the media" really is just giving you what you want. People who are lazy and dumb and would rather hear about the Kardashians latest naked selfie than what's going on in Syria; or people who would rather be spoon-fed a hot take on politics that just happens to fall in line with things they think they agree with.

There are other contributing factors, but that's by far the most powerful. If suddenly every single person in the world said "You know what, Buzzfeed is stupid and worthless and I'm not going to click on their stuff anymore," Buzzfeed would be out of business in a week.

The problem is, people really do like Buzzfeed (for some god awful reason) and they do like to hear about the Kardashians daily nonsense and be spoon-fed their hot taeks, because as a nation we're collectively stupid, fat and lazy.
 

Bayouboy

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Yes, everyone does indeed have an opinion. My opinion is that Trump exemplifies and is a product of a system so broken and corrupt that it will never change itself. As a result change will be forced on it from the outside.

"Democracy in the US is so corrupted by money that it is no longer recognisable as democracy. You can kick individual politicians out of office, but what do you do when the entire structure of politics is corrupt? Turn to the demagogue who rages into this political vacuum, denouncing the forces he exemplifies. The problem is not, as Trump claims, that the election will be stolen by ballot rigging. It is that the entire electoral process is stolen from the American people before they get anywhere near casting their votes. When Trump claims that the little guy is being screwed by the system, he’s right. The only problem is that he is the system."

Land of the free my ******* ***
:9:
 

Suavecito8

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The longstanding, prevailing criticism of our political system is that it's a pay-to-play scheme, serving first the interests of the most wealthy. That makes it difficult to accept Trump as an actual, effectual outsider when he is garishly emblematic of the political puppet masters.

He's often called attention to his relationships with politicos over the years, including the Clintons, and the support and contributions he's given to the political system. He's not been rubbing elbows and making donations to the political offering plate to help you and me. So fine then, he's played in the system and personally benefited, but he's no outsider. And I absolutely do not believe he's running for the office because he's motivated by some higher calling to transform Washington for reasons that don't primarily benefit him and his.

It is clear as day. Yet people still want this person as POTUS. :covri:
 

mt15

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This is the part that completely baffles me. The man is not the least bit duplicitous, he has been telling and showing us who he is for decades.

He's the worst sort of bully, he's bigoted, a misogynist, xenophobic, a pathological liar, a swindler, a narcissistic, heartless, selfish, piece of crap. It's painfully obvious for anyone to see exactly who he is. He doesn't even try to hide it.

How in holy hell can anyone want this person making decisions that could affect them in any way? I just don't get it.
 

RetroMcBananaFace

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How in holy hell can anyone want this person making decisions that could affect them in any way? I just don't get it.
Because he has an (R) behind his name. Really, that's it. Everything else is secondary. If he was running as an independent he'd have about the same stature as a Gary Johnson.

When it comes to voting, most people pick their team and stick with it no matter what. Go down your entire ballot ticking off every "R" or every "D" and you don't have to think much. You're the good guys, they're the bad guys. Easy and stupid, just like America likes it.
 

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