Tyrann Mathieu Pros/cons (1 Viewer)

[dajmno]

no thanks, don't draft internet memes.

 

[Vacherie Saint]

Being overly aggressive and confrontational doesnt improve your argument, I know this for a fact. Id be hypocritical if I faulted you for it, but even I understand that it's not really that impressive to other posters

My initial foray into this discussion was niether aggressive or confrontational. In fact, it wasn't even in response to you or any other poster. You engaged me with the following:

Nice. You really shattered that "too small" argument there. Devastating argument.

You're right. It's not impressive at all. I guess you should take your own advice.

1) yes there is such a thing as "too tall", Sherman and Browner are outliers, a consequence of their own unique skill and Seattles press heavy scheme. Tall guys tend to have longer strides which is difficult for corners. Most get converted to safety for that reason, where they can spend more time facing the QB and use that long stride to their advantage to cover big distance.

Yep, I agree. I'd add to that by stating that taller kids with ball skills are usually moved to receiver in high school. They also tend to get hurt more/easier on defense.

2) Mathieu is not 195 pounds. He's 185. He is as light as Tracy Porter. If Tracy Porter "taught us anything", its notthung in favor of drafting Mathieu.

I was giving an ambiguous example and never said TM was 195. The point was proper height/weight ratio, or "bulk" as you put it; but that sailed right past you just like your own Sam Mills reference, apparently.

3) did you just cite Johnny Patrick, who we just cut, as an example of why we should draft TM?

Yes, I did. The point remains that a Superbowl champion coach drafted a nickle corner with his third round pick and a backup tackle with a 2nd. Whether they panned out or not is irrelevant. Payton, like Belichick, is a "big picture" drafter. Plenty 1st rounders bust too. Hindsight is 20/20.

My personal opinion is I would like larger CBs who can do some jamming at the LOS as my top 2 CBs. I can see TM being productive as a nickel, but I'd rather not spend one of our limited draft picks on a nickel this year. I also think that there's a good chance TM gets hurt a lot at the NFL level.

Great, then we agree. I never said I wanted the Saints to draft him (that's your own concoction) or that he is a starting NFL CB. Simply that his "issues" are largely overstated and his body of work is a complete contradiction of the strawman that fans/sports media have created in the Honey Badger persona. I believe he can be a "Charles Tillman Light" type of player at the next level and would best be suited as a nickle somewhere in a slot heavy division.

That said, the likelihood of a 3rd rounder developing into a productive starter is slim, so if the Saints decide to take TM with the 3rd, I'd support it. We are in dire need of DB depth and he could play corner or safety at the next level. We'll see what happens.

 

[NCSaint]

One thing for sure he will be in one of the training camps if not a final day roster.

 

[big-EASY88]

Big Tyrann Mathieu fan, wishful thinking that the Saints draft him though....

 

[Saintlady]

fyi from his twitter:

Tyrann Mathieu‏@Mathieu_Era
Tune in at 6a ET on 3/14/13 to .@nfl_am for former #LSU DB Tyrann Mathieu (@Mathieu_Era). #NFLNetwork #NFL #Draft”

 

[BIG DAWG]

Tyrann is a good talented player but idk if SP will put up with all the talking. If he is talking crazy now just think when he get on the field. Maybe Vilma and the Vets will snatch a not in him before he does all that. We will see. I want Tyrann to be a Saint but man its like a coin toss.

 

[Saint Kamara]

I was not a Mathieu fan and thought he was overrated during his sophomore "breakout" season.

I lost you right here, bruh.

In no way shape or form was he remotely close to being overrated.

He impacted games the likes we have not seen in a long long while on the defensive side of the ball. And last I checked, that's the ultimate value of a defensive player. And it's not like he got burned a lot in the process of being so darn aggressive. In fact, he rarely got burned that entire season.

And that wasn't his "breakout" season. He was killing it as a true freshman. It was just the next step in his evolution of simply being a phenomenal defensive force and playmaker.

I think he will make an impact at the NFL level, IF he keeps his head on straight. But that's a big big IF. That's my only concern. His physical attributes of being "short" or "small" be damned. That won't be his issue.

 

[SaintsJunkie]

I think he will be a good player, but I know from experience that it's harder to behave when you live near your running buddies. also celebrity is pretty large around here , just think he would do better in another place , with a team that likes to take more chances with its draft picks, we really can't afford to take a risk on our picks this year.

 

[Symbiote]

IMO the second coming of Roman Harper.

 

[Saint Kamara]

IMO the second coming of Roman Harper.

Roman Harper = absolutely no ball skills
Tyrann Mathieu = exceptional ball skills

exact opposites

 

[K-SWIB]

He's a loser. Had a 2nd chance, and a 3rd chance. He can get his 4th chance elsewhere.

So much attention is focused solely this guy's off-field issues and hype, that it's hard to find a true evaluation of him. I was somewhat disinterested in him, until I saw his combine workout this morning. I think he would be a great pickup in 3rd round if he's there... all things being equal. But since he has a pretty big following/buzz on here, I thought I'd give a football evaluation of him (quick, abbreviated one) without mentioning all the "extra" off-field stuff.


Pros: Not the most athletic guy out there, but he maximizes his athleticism. Understands football and how to put himself in position from a variety of positions in a variety of situations. A NATURAL ballhawk. Not just when the ball is in the air, but when it's tucked and being carried down the field. Consistently rips with his free hand--second nature. Attacks the ball and/or ball carrier with aggression. Is a "Steve Smith" type of player on the defensive side of the ball. Very quick feet and fluid hips. Has the best pure ball skills in the DB class, consistently high-pointing the ball in the air and transitioning smoothly into his return. This translates to making more INTs than he'll miss and doing something with the ball after he catches it. Also has value as a return man, particularly on punts. **Always plays at 100%.

Cons: Size/strength is going to be more of a limiting factor in the NFL. As instinctive and efficient he was in college, will not be as effective as a blitzer or in a safety role in the NFL. Will miss more tackles because he tends to throw his body around. Is a tad overagressive and will take himself out of plays by going for the big play. Athletic ceiling is pretty much reached... isn't going to get much bigger or faster. Most of all, is undisciplined. Commits too many penalties and gambles too much. Coaches will have trust issues with him not only because of what he did off the field, but because of what he tends to do on the field.



Again, I think he's worth a mid-round pick. Could come in and be nickel CB from day 1... and one who makes plays at that. What will determine his future is not what he does in year 1, but what he does after that. Does he stay clean off the field? Does he become a more disciplined player on the field? How coachable is he? A lot of these natural "football players" with a lot of swagger dont' take to coaching. He needs to humble himself and use his instincts to become a premier player. But even if he is only a nickel, he will be a playmaker on the field.

Finally, he needs to go to an aggressive system where he won't be locked into a single role. Rob Ryan's defense would be a great fit for Mathieu, and vise versa. He will be used to his strengths, moved around, and allowed to make plays. Eventually he'll have to become more of a pure corner because as he tacks on his years, he's going to be thought of a "specialty" guy more and more, and could end up like a Devin Hester. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but Mathieu can bea great defensive player and needs to humble himself and maybe take a step or two back in order to reach that point.


/FYI, I am not an LSU homer. I was not a Mathieu fan and thought he was overrated during his sophomore "breakout" season. But there is no denying the fact that he has rare football instincts and intelligence. He is NFL-ready right now... he'll give you snaps and make the most of them. The question is whether or not he'll be able to sustain a career, or if he'll get in his own way and be out of the league in 2 or 3 years.

 

[crawfish2010]

I think Mathieu will be a better safety than cornerback.

 

[SuperRemo]

I think he will be a good player, but I know from experience that it's harder to behave when you live near your running buddies. also celebrity is pretty large around here , just think he would do better in another place , with a team that likes to take more chances with its draft picks, we really can't afford to take a risk on our picks this year.

Taking a risk is the nature of the business, its the name of the game in the draft.

every one of these kids is risky on some level, be it talent, injury, thuggery, weed, freak events, or just suckitude.....

we gotta do what's optimal with our selections and if they think he's turned it around and is the bpa at our pick in the mid roudns then great, welcome tyrann.