Ukraine (16 Viewers)

Chairman of the Joint Chiefs seems to suggest resumption of talks once the expected winter lull in fighting starts, citing over 200,000 likely war dead between the two sides.


General Mark Milley’s remarks on Wednesday offer the highest US estimate of casualties to date in the nearly nine-month-old conflict, and came as Ukraine and Russia face a potential winter lull in fighting that analysts say could offer an opportunity for some kind of negotiations.

Asked about prospects for diplomacy in Ukraine, Milley noted the early refusal to negotiate in World War I compounded human suffering and led to millions more casualties.

“So when there’s an opportunity to negotiate, when peace can be achieved … seize the moment,” Milley told the Economic Club of New York.

Its heartening to hear him analogize it to WWI rather than WWII, which I think is a much more apt comparison. I know Zelensky is still posturing for nothing less than regime change in Russia and full return of all of the Donbas and Crimea but at least we're finally going public (sorta) with messaging that he's not going to get that so get the best deal you can.
 
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs seems to suggest resumption of talks once the expected winter lull in fighting starts, citing over 200,000 likely war dead between the two sides.




Its heartening to hear him analogize it to WWI rather than WWII, which I think is a much more apt comparison. I know Zelensky is still posturing for nothing less than regime change in Russia and full return of all of the Donbas and Crimea but at least we're finally going public (sorta) with messaging that he's not going to get that so get the best deal you can.

I didnt see anything in that piece about Ukraine having to dial back their desires in order to obtain a negotiated peace.

Ukraine owes the world nothing. Russia doesnt get off without losing everything it attempted to gain ( and legitimize Crimea ) thru this special military operation,

I understand Milley's public comments, but i seriously doubt he personally wants Russia to walk away with something rather than nothing.
 
I understand Milley's public comments, but i seriously doubt he personally wants Russia to walk away with something rather than nothing.

Its not a matter of what anyone "wants," its about what is in the realm of realistic possibilities despite what our utopian ideal might be. By definition if you're advocating for a negotiated settlement you're trying to get each side to walk away with something rather than nothing (rather than keep fighting indefinitely with millions of lives at risk). At least that's how I took it and his direct reference to how WWI got so screwed up.
 
Its not a matter of what anyone "wants," its about what is in the realm of realistic possibilities despite what our utopian ideal might be. By definition if you're advocating for a negotiated settlement you're trying to get each side to walk away with something rather than nothing (rather than keep fighting indefinitely with millions of lives at risk). At least that's how I took it and his direct reference to how WWI got so screwed up.
And what would you suggest we reward the war criminal putin with? You don't negotiate with terrorists because it enables more terroristic behavior. Here's the convo you have with putin....We demand that you vacate all of Ukraine's territory, this includes Crimea. We demand you return the women, children and elderly that you kidnapped. We demand that you pay restitution to Ukraine in the form of a monetary settlement equal to at least 50% of the cost to rebuild infrastructure (this is my compromise). We demand that you no longer attempt to dictate a sovereign nation's will to govern in their own manner. We demand that all parties complicit in the war crimes committed by russian forces be made available for trial by the international court.
 
And what would you suggest we reward the war criminal putin with? You don't negotiate with terrorists because it enables more terroristic behavior. Here's the convo you have with putin....We demand that you vacate all of Ukraine's territory, this includes Crimea. We demand you return the women, children and elderly that you kidnapped. We demand that you pay restitution to Ukraine in the form of a monetary settlement equal to at least 50% of the cost to rebuild infrastructure (this is my compromise). We demand that you no longer attempt to dictate a sovereign nation's will to govern in their own manner. We demand that all parties complicit in the war crimes committed by russian forces be made available for trial by the international court.

You should ask for a gallon of ice cream for every person in the US while you're at it - you're just as likely to get that as you are anything on this wish list.
 
Its not a matter of what anyone "wants," its about what is in the realm of realistic possibilities despite what our utopian ideal might be. By definition if you're advocating for a negotiated settlement you're trying to get each side to walk away with something rather than nothing (rather than keep fighting indefinitely with millions of lives at risk). At least that's how I took it and his direct reference to how WWI got so screwed up.

When you and your countrymen have been besieged for over 8 months with troops, rockets, missiles, torture, rape and genocide, what concession(s) are you thinking should be on the table?

I suspect Milley is putting it out in the ether, but i dont think a career military man would be suggesting Ukraine give up anything.

And it is a matter of "want" - if Ukrainians want to expel Russia from every inch of their territory, they are well within their rights to do so. Now does that mean we discontinue our aid? thats up to the President/Congress. I would be upset if we did, but in the end, that was their decision based on intel they have that i dont.

Rest assured, Putin walks away with ANYTHING, he will convince his populace they were victorious, re-group, ramp up his arms mfg, and do this again when he thinks the time is right since no one will step forward to stop him fully.
 
You should ask for a gallon of ice cream for every person in the US while you're at it - you're just as likely to get that as you are anything on this wish list.
That's just not true. Ukraine has the leverage they need to make those requests at this point. They might not get all they want, but at a minimum they are right to request/demand sovereignty over their own territories which were essentially stolen from them. It does two things, one, gives security to Ukraine to defend themselves from the inevitable future attacks from Russia and two, it causes Russia to count the cost of attempting to destroy Ukraine in the future.

Putin doesn't have a leg to stand on.
 
I wasn't asking or wishing. I was demanding.

LOL, OK.

I understand nobody likes the idea of Russia walking away with anything other than total defeat but, yall should probably temper your expectations. If the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is telling Ukraine, "hey, you should really start negotiating..." they should probably listen to him.

Back to your regularly scheduled GameDay thread.....
 
LOL, OK.

I understand nobody likes the idea of Russia walking away with anything other than total defeat but, yall should probably temper your expectations. If the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is telling Ukraine, "hey, you should really start negotiating..." they should probably listen to him.

Back to your regularly scheduled GameDay thread.....
Of course they'll listen, and then make a decision that works for them. And at this point, there's really no incentive to negotiate right now because the Russians aren't good faith actors at this point. That could possibly change, but I doubt it...at least until Putin is out of the picture.
 

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