Ukraine (12 Viewers)

[superchuck500]

I have a feeling it's just regurgitating the certain type of media they consume

For the Tucker Carlsons and JD Vances of the world, the US shouldn’t be doing anything in response - it’s not in American interests in their view. I think that’s a poor reading of American interests in Europe but at least they have a coherent position and offer an alternative policy.

Less common from those circles has been idea that the US response has been weak and Washington should be doing something stronger. But what exactly is that?

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I have a feeling it's just regurgitating the certain type of media they consume

i mean this is all of us, no?
unless bclemms is on the ground in Ukraine, we're not getting 1st hand reports
like anything else it's important whether you use something as a tool or as a weapon - it's always easier to use something as a weapon and it takes a bit of training to use something as a tool (hence media literacy)

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

Putin will drive all of the anti-Russian people from Ukraine, then pro Russian candidates will dominate the next elections, and he will say he supports the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

 

[efil4stnias]

It will all depend on how much discomfort the US and the EU can stand. Hard sanctions will work, as will a protracted insurgency in Ukraine. However, it will be uncomfortable for the US and EU - energy prices will go up, if we need to bring sanctions against China for helping Russia, that will further hurt supply chain issues, preventing inflation from easing as early as we'd like.

If we stay united, then Russia really doesn't stand much of a chance. They have an economy smaller than Italy. But it requires American and Europe being willing to stand discomfort for maybe a couple of years, and given how divided this country is, it's not a sure thing we can do that.

Its smaller ( their economy ) than that of California.

Yes we are going to have to deal with some domestic ramifications, which, as you noted, will certainly get blowback. But then i suggest its better than sending troops to a foreign land.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

 

[SystemShock]

It’s a fair question. It’s also fair to ask what they thought in 2014 as well, this has been a campaign by Moscow, a long play. But that line of thought would require an accurate and honest account of what they actually want - and it’s going to be very mixed, they’re not all pro-Russian. And this is after 8 years of control by Russian forces.

When that isn’t clear I think you have to defer to international law. You can’t sow separatist sentiment by force and then use that separatism as a pretext to invade and annex territory from a sovereign neighbor. If it genuinely was about the protection of those in the region other methods that don’t involve military invasion would seem more desirable. But it isn’t, it’s about Putin’s vision for Russia.

But then we will have to move to MAP and talk about pots and kettles.

 

[SystemShock]

The rapid rebuilding of a coalition of Western Europe under US leadership has been impressive.

George HW Bush did this with Kuwait and it worked pretty darn well.

Russia is not Iraq.

 

[superchuck500]

But then we will have to move to MAP and talk about pots and kettles.

Indeed

 

[Sailorsaint]

Just heard on TV that the Ukraine produces 90% of Neon gas used in production of computer chips.

The chips shortage crippled parts of the world economy. A Russian invasion of Ukraine would make it even worse

The two potential combatants are leading producers of key components for computer chip manufacturing

fortune.com

 

[superchuck500]

Just heard on TV that the Ukraine produces 90% of Neon gas used in production of computer chips.

The chips shortage crippled parts of the world economy. A Russian invasion of Ukraine would make it even worse

The two potential combatants are leading producers of key components for computer chip manufacturing

fortune.com

That article suggests that 90% is not accurate. It states that neon production has diversified more recently but Ukraine remains “a key producer”. Not sure what the number is.

 

[St. Widge]

Sanctions will be very, very effective, especially the ones against the 50-60 thieving billionaire Russian oligarchs he has to keep happy. Start revoking visas and freezing their assets and watch what happens.

Also if Russia can’t export fuel to Europe do you really think the Chinese are going to help? HAHAHAHA they are going to squeeze him out of every last petrodollar of price that they can.

I hope you are right. But, Putin is a gangster by nature and ex-KGB. He will likely do what he wants and deal with the consequences later and that likely means taking Ukraine regardless of the consequences. And, before he gives it up under economic pressure, if he ever does, he will squeeze every penny he can out of the citizens of the Ukraine and Russia to make up for any loses.

One possibility is that this is just a large scale extortion racket and he wants something in return for giving up the Ukraine. The problem is that if we find out what it is and give it to him, it will only encourage him to do it again.

 

[St. Widge]

Putin will drive all of the anti-Russian people from Ukraine, then pro Russian candidates will dominate the next elections, and he will say he supports the democratically elected government of Ukraine.

Yep. Putin is ex-KGB. This is pretty much so how the Soviets did it back in the day.

 

[DaveXA]

Anyone deliberately injecting drive by politics or any overly political pot-stirring will be locked out of the thread and posts removed.

Thanks.

 

[SaintJ]

It will all depend on how much discomfort the US and the EU can stand. Hard sanctions will work, as will a protracted insurgency in Ukraine. However, it will be uncomfortable for the US and EU - energy prices will go up, if we need to bring sanctions against China for helping Russia, that will further hurt supply chain issues, preventing inflation from easing as early as we'd like.

If we stay united, then Russia really doesn't stand much of a chance. They have an economy smaller than Italy. But it requires American and Europe being willing to stand discomfort for maybe a couple of years, and given how divided this country is, it's not a sure thing we can do that.

The more news about Russian pain we get, and there will be plenty of it, the easier it will be for the citizens of the world’s democracies to dig in.

And China is only going to help Russia to the extent needed to keep it alive, not keep it strong.

Like anybody else, when they see a bully show it’s weakness, they will squeeze as much juice as they can get out of it.

 

[SaintJ]

Russia is not Iraq.

Yeah, I had pretty much picked up on that.

 

[SaintJ]

I hope you are right. But, Putin is a gangster by nature and ex-KGB. He will likely do what he wants and deal with the consequences later and that likely means taking Ukraine regardless of the consequences. And, before he gives it up under economic pressure, if he ever does, he will squeeze every penny he can out of the citizens of the Ukraine and Russia to make up for any loses.

One possibility is that this is just a large scale extortion racket and he wants something in return for giving up the Ukraine. The problem is that if we find out what it is and give it to him, it will only encourage him to do it again.

Of course it’s an extortion play. He has no interest whatsoever in invading Ukraine — the internal political unrest created by a protracted war nobody really wants plus massive new economic problems at home would put his whole criminal empire at risk.

He wants buffer states and incremental Western destabilization, and this is his extortion play to seize the Donbas region.

There is no appeasing him. The West needs to hit him in the mouth now. The UK and German responses were terrific. Let’s see what Biden says this afternoon.