Ukraine (15 Viewers)

saintmdterps

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So we are in Montreux Switzerland...went to the Queen Studio Experience ( they bought Mountain Studios which is now a casino, after large fire in 1979 by a Frank Zappa fan shooting flare gun at his concert indoors lol)

Anyway, there is a wall of notes and messages. The FIRST one that caught my eye...
Which was documented in Deep Purple’s song Smoke on the Water.
 

DaveXA

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Could I perhaps emphasize the stupidity of this war? Now, how could Americans hurt themselves? This is how. Americans are paying higher prices for what? This whole debacle is so dumb. It's a real crises. Just dumb. People just don't seem to care that this hurts us and it is sad.
Tis cognitive dissonance when you're complaining about gas prices when Ukranians are dying in their sovereign country because of Russia's "special military operation" which is essentially an undeclared war of aggression.

In WWII, we had your exact attitude with disastrous results as Hitler damn near conquered England. I hate war, but to play pacifist with a bully and let him do what he wants will lead to what happened when Germany invaded much of Europe in WWII.

Higher prices sucks, but a lot of that is in no small part due to Putin's shenanigans.

To stand by is to have our heads in the sand. A strong, sovereign Ukraine is in just about everyone's interest unless you're a Putin sympathizer. There's no ambiguity here. You're either supporting Ukraine or you're supporting Russia. There's a good reason 2 long-standing neutral countries have now joined NATO.
 

baarbogast

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Tis cognitive dissonance when you're complaining about gas prices when Ukranians are dying in their sovereign country because of Russia's "special military operation" which is essentially an undeclared war of aggression.

In WWII, we had your exact attitude with disastrous results as Hitler damn near conquered England. I hate war, but to play pacifist with a bully and let him do what he wants will lead to what happened when Germany invaded much of Europe in WWII.

Higher prices sucks, but a lot of that is in no small part due to Putin's shenanigans.

To stand by is to have our heads in the sand. A strong, sovereign Ukraine is in just about everyone's interest unless you're a Putin sympathizer. There's no ambiguity here. You're either supporting Ukraine or you're supporting Russia. There's a good reason 2 long-standing neutral countries have now joined NATO.
You phrased that much better than I was going to. In addition, Switzerland has even sanctioned Russia.
 

bclemms

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I honestly don't understand any of this. People are fighting but there's no reason to fight. No one will be able to explain this to me. It's completely absurd.
You're not wrong but you couldn't be farther from right.

In theory all of your views are absolutely correct. This isn't Americas problem and it works beautifully if you are looking at things in black and white while ignoring the rest of the color spectrum.
 

baarbogast

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If you could measure dumb then giving Ukrainians weapons is right up there with as dumb as you could get
Have you been or are you near Eastern or Central Europe? I lived in Hungary for two years and got around to a few other places, Prague/Bratislava/Bran/and Bucharest.

The people over 40 couldn't say anything good about Russia and those under 40 largely dismissed Russia as a "harmless" old empire. The biggest difference in their views, the over 40 crowd remembered the revolutions of 1989-91(their words). The revolutionaries also shot the Russian puppet governments so that they couldn't/wouldn't come back.

I do have concerns that 10-15 years from now, land mines will still be hidden. I think it was in the summer of 20, Poland had to detonate a WWII bomb in a marina channel. Getting rid of mines and unexploded munitions will be both expensive and dangerous.
 

baarbogast

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With Snake Island unoccupied:

Does that mean grain ships can now leave Odessa?

Has the blockade been broken or merely dented?

Does this relieve pressure on Odessa or are the land forces big/strong enough to destroy/capture it?

Does Ukraine try to occupy it and use to house Harpoons and drones?
 

Crzycjunx76

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Billions in weapons and this is ok? It’s absurd, it really is.
Billions in weapons, that we were going to make replacements for anyway and shove last years in a warehouse somewhere or dismantle them. We churn them out each year.

We are supporting a nation that has in recent years done a better job of living up to the ideals of liberty and representative government than we have... and we are supporting their very existance.

Dont say it is pointless unless you would see no functional differerence in life if Putin appointed the leader where you live, scrapped all your presently protected rights, and said all your property was that of the state... though you could keep "using" some of it.
the weapons are going to end up with bad actors. We’ve seen this movie before. It is truly funny. It’s predictable how this works out
Well if Russia gets their hands on them im sure they will. Russia is a rogue/terrorist state as far as I am concerned and their leadership should be treated thusly.
 

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