Ukraine (19 Viewers)

[rail]

 

[efil4stnias]

If its MY neighbor, I'm taking action. (This would be Ukraine's position)

If its YOUR neighbor and you live on the other side of the country but we do business together, I'm willing to provide some free legal advice but I'm not coming out of pocket to fight your neighbor. Sorry....

But if that guy has done it already to 2 others, and gotten away with it, and has eyes on property i have an interest in behind you, do i say " ill let you deal with " or say " yeah we need to stop this guy" ?

And by "Action" you mean laws- that we have, abide by and have consequences for breaking.


At this point, Putin has faced no consequences


now...remove those laws.

 

[Tapxe]

If its MY neighbor, I'm taking action. (This would be Ukraine's position)

If its YOUR neighbor and you live on the other side of the country but we do business together, I'm willing to provide some free legal advice but I'm not coming out of pocket to fight your neighbor. Sorry....

Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing. --John Stuart Mill

Until one day your wake up and all those neighbors are gone and you've none to help you against him

 

[Mr. Sparkle]

But if that guy has done it already to 2 others, and gotten away with it, and has eyes on property i have an interest in behind you, do i say " ill let you deal with " or say " yeah we need to stop this guy" ?

And by "Action" you mean laws- that we have, abide by and have consequences for breaking.


At this point, Putin has faced no consequences


now...remove those laws.

You asked me a hypo, and I responded. So now its a different hypo - I don't think its a great analogy to begin with but, just to finish the thought, if your bad neighbor was threatening property next to mine, I will of course be more engaged. But until the action moves from your side of the country to my backyard, my response is going to be more restrained, regardless of what "laws" are in place.

Until one day your wake up and all those neighbors are gone and you've none to help you against him

This would mean Putin has successfully waged war against the rest of NATO until we're the last one standing. Not a very realistic scenario.

I don't really mind repeating my position in different posts but I don't want to end up spamming the thread.

FWIW I sincerely hope everyone gets to tell me what a fool I was for doubting the current course of action.

 

[baarbogast]

How sick are they?

 

[BooBirdSaint]

I'm all for Ukraine. But, I still have tons of questions on what is different between Russia's 2014 annexation of Crimea and Donbas and Western inaction then and 2022s all in mentality? What was different? Seems like one led directly to the other.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[efil4stnias]

You asked me a hypo, and I responded. So now its a different hypo - I don't think its a great analogy to begin with but, just to finish the thought, if your bad neighbor was threatening property next to mine, I will of course be more engaged. But until the action moves from your side of the country to my backyard, my response is going to be more restrained, regardless of what "laws" are in place.



This would mean Putin has successfully waged war against the rest of NATO until we're the last one standing. Not a very realistic scenario.

I don't really mind repeating my position in different posts but I don't want to end up spamming the thread.

FWIW I sincerely hope everyone gets to tell me what a fool I was for doubting the current course of action.

and thats well within your rights- to be restrained. Just dont be all "aghast" when it happens again and again and to you and you look to others for assistance and nothing comes.

Again, i dont mind folks thinking we shouldnt be involved. That doesnt bother me. Its the "why" we shouldnt be involved that bothers me. The isolationist attitude that prevails among many that think like you do.

We hold certain beliefs to be true. Its what built this country into what it is today. Others want that same thing. Select few want to extinguish that desire. So its pretty obvious why we would side with the nation in a state of democratic infancy.

 

[efil4stnias]

How sick are they?

well we dont have 100 MLRS to give...but at this point, its ATACMS- they have to be on the table.

And if this verifies, you cant turn a blind eye.

 

[efil4stnias]

How sick are they?

its out there- i wont watch but seeing the replies---- its real

and they doxxed the perpetrator.

 

[nolastyle]

well we dont have 100 MLRS to give...but at this point, its ATACMS- they have to be on the table.

And if this verifies, you cant turn a blind eye.

There's video all over social media. Couldn't bring myself to watch even the censored ones but it is indeed out there.

 

[efil4stnias]

There's video all over social media. Couldn't bring myself to watch even the censored ones but it is indeed out there.

yeah im not.

My mom passed in Dec 2021...born in Switzerland and was a WWII child. Always had memories of WWII and being a child in Europe. As much as i miss my mom, this war would have resurfaced every single memory and probably would have made her last days absolutely horrid. And for that reason, im grateful in some sense, that she doesnt have to relive that nightmare.

Atrocities do happen during war. Things like this are relatively uncommon. But to post on social media is to "intimidate" as well. 20 years ago it would be rumor/mythos. Today, its in your face and for every human on the planet to see.

Thats what Russians do. Not all, but the old adage "one rotten apple..." applies.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[boutte]

If its MY neighbor, I'm taking action. (This would be Ukraine's position)

If its YOUR neighbor and you live on the other side of the country but we do business together, I'm willing to provide some free legal advice but I'm not coming out of pocket to fight your neighbor. Sorry....

What if he's killing and raping everybody who gets in the way and it's the fifth time he's done it and he says he's coming after anybody whose ever done business with them?
Oh well, why should you care? There are lots of other people between you and him.

Ever hear of WW2, Neville Chamberlain, The Phony War? Any of that stuff ring a bell?

 

[DaveXA]

I get it. They're rotten bastages.

But at a certain point the facts on the ground are what they are, and it becomes deal-cutting time, regardless of how distasteful it might be.

I don't think we're anywhere near that point right now. I don't think negotiating will happen until Ukraine reclaims their territory and the Russians fully withdraw from Crimea and Donbas. Russia has to pay a high price for invading. And I suspect when it's all said and done, they will pay a higher price than Putin is willing to accept.