Ukraine (15 Viewers)

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[0rion]

This guy is OUT there!

Wait a year until the sanctions have really had time to work

 

[gboudx]

This guy is OUT there!

His ranting looks like someone who is nervous and trying to convince himself that everything is okay.

 

[Consigliere]

What does "this is war" mean?

Does it mean we should do whatever is necessary to defeat the enemy?

It means that Russia is already doing whatever is necessary to defeat the enemy.

The fear is that if Ukraine bombs locations in Russia then Russia will "take the gloves off" and try harder.

That seems to be an illogical fear. The things that Russia is not doing (draft, nukes, chemicals) it would still not do for the same reasons.

But the way things are, Russia can destroy Ukraine's homeland, at whatever pace, tactics, and cost that it likes, with no risk to its own homeland. That is an extraordinary advantage and it seems unnecessary.

 

[DaveXA]

It means that Russia is already doing whatever is necessary to defeat the enemy.

The fear is that if Ukraine bombs locations in Russia then Russia will "take the gloves off" and try harder.

That seems to be an illogical fear. The things that Russia is not doing (draft, nukes, chemicals) it would still not do for the same reasons.

But the way things are, Russia can destroy Ukraine's homeland, at whatever pace, tactics, and cost that it likes, with no risk to its own homeland. That is an extraordinary advantage and it seems unnecessary.

Unless I'm misreading...no, Russia can't destroy Ukraine without risk to their homeland. That notion seems absurd. There would be a substantial risk, whether retaliation from Western allies, retaliation from Ukraine and their allies, NATO, the EU, etc. They're not going to let Russia just overrun Ukraine. It hasn't happened yet, and the longer this goes on, the less likely Russia will have an appetite for this ongoing conflict.

No doubt their people will feel pain when their kids arrive home in coffins in large numbers. That will definitely have an impact.

 

[bclemms]

It means that Russia is already doing whatever is necessary to defeat the enemy.

The fear is that if Ukraine bombs locations in Russia then Russia will "take the gloves off" and try harder.

That seems to be an illogical fear. The things that Russia is not doing (draft, nukes, chemicals) it would still not do for the same reasons.

But the way things are, Russia can destroy Ukraine's homeland, at whatever pace, tactics, and cost that it likes, with no risk to its own homeland. That is an extraordinary advantage and it seems unnecessary.

I mean, that sounds great and all but what source do you have that suggests Russia will not use chemical weapons or nukes that US Intelligence officials do not have? Almost everyone with access to US Intel seem to think the red lines are pretty clear.

I do not have access to any privy information so I'm just going to have to trust the people that do. Could they be making a mistake? Absolutely. At this point of the war it may feel like we aren't doing enough today but looking back 6 months, I think we can all agree that none of us thought Russia would be in such a horrible position so I do think they have earned some trust.


I'll try to put things in perspective. Do you think if Belarus hits NATO targets with Russian weaponry that we would react?

 

[DaveXA]

I mean, that sounds great and all but what source do you have that suggests Russia will not use chemical weapons or nukes that US Intelligence officials do not have? Almost everyone with access to US Intel seem to think the red lines are pretty clear.

I do not have access to any privy information so I'm just going to have to trust the people that do. Could they be making a mistake? Absolutely. At this point of the war it may feel like we aren't doing enough today but looking back 6 months, I think we can all agree that none of us thought Russia would be in such a horrible position.


I'll try to put things in perspective. Do you think if Belarus hits NATO targets with Russian weaponry that we would react?

I'm pretty sure Russia has used or at least facilitated the use of chemical weapons in Syria. So yeah, they absolutely can use that option if they want to.

We have to be wary of what other arrows they have in their quiver, but at the same time, they have to worry about how their actions will be perceived by the rest of the world. It's easy to think Putin doesn't care about that, but deep down, it's clear he probably doesn't want to destroy the country. Galvanizing the rest of the world against Russia would effectively put them in a bad, bad spot. I think the Russian people would overthrow their government before allowing their country to be destroyed.

 

[Sailorsaint]

I'm pretty sure Russia has used or at least facilitated the use of chemical weapons in Syria. So yeah, they absolutely can use that option if they want to.

We have to be wary of what other arrows they have in their quiver, but at the same time, they have to worry about how their actions will be perceived by the rest of the world. It's easy to think Putin doesn't care about that, but deep down, it's clear he probably doesn't want to destroy the country. Galvanizing the rest of the world against Russia would effectively put them in a bad, bad spot. I think the Russian people would overthrow their government before allowing their country to be destroyed.

I don't think the people would have to. If it came down to russia being destroyed because of putin, I think the govt and fsb will take him out. They will probably have the support of the people though, because they will use the same propaganda machine against him except this time they could just use the truth.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

Really good read.

 

[bclemms]

Ukraine has every right to go after Russian targets with Ukraine's weapons. I have no problem with them bombing Moscow. Has anyone even suggested Ukraine can't hit targets in Russia?

 

[DaveXA]

Peripherally related, Griner was sentenced to 9 years in prison. Not too surprising. She wasn't getting out of that regardless. I guess the only way she gets out anytime soon is via prisoner swap.

 

[baarbogast]

Ukraine has every right to go after Russian targets with Ukraine's weapons. I have no problem with them bombing Moscow. Has anyone even suggested Ukraine can't hit targets in Russia?

Yes, it was one of the conditions for getting the HIMARS. Actually, Ukraine can't use American weapons to attack Russia. They can use their own and nothing is said.

If we let them use our weapons to attack, Russian artillery on their side of the border is then under threat. Also, from what I saw on maps and video the 300/km missiles would put Sevastapol under threat. That would largely remove sub launched cruise missiles.

 

[boutte]

The EU, NATO and UN should should jointly declare a no fly zone and declare the Russian Black Sea blockade illegal.

It's right and legal thing to do.