Ukraine (41 Viewers)

[baarbogast]

 

[gboudx]

No tea, no cigarettes, no problem

Cue up John Deacon on bass, Another One Bites the Dust.

 

[rail]

 

[Sailorsaint]

“Fortunate Son”

 

[Sailorsaint]

Since this has started China and India have both taken the anti-west path and called it neutral. They are just as responsible as Russia for what's went on in Ukraine. I've thought for awhile now that they should be on the sanctions list for supporting Russia because they could've already helped put pressure on Russia to stop this and didn't.

Hard to build pressure on russia when China and India provide a relief valve.

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[Crzycjunx76]

Ultimately I think this is Putin trying to stir fear in the EU that this conflict will go on for years. I think he is betting that his own peoples negative reaction to conscription will be less impactful than the negative reaction of Europeans to the threat of prolonged shortages/price increases caused by the war... and that they will pressure Ukraine into an unfavorable end to the conflict.

Hopefully some of the "plans" that were spoken of (acted upon?) for independence from Russian energy will start bearing fruit and take that hopeof his away.

This force he is trying to gather, train, and bring to bear... how will they be equipped? Like the initial force? With uniforms inapproprate for the elements, some wearing their civilian footwear? With some secret stash of newer equipment or will they too be rolling in with their grandfathers vehicles(and rations)? Russia does not have the domestic production capacity to quickly produce the tech needed to replace smart munitions, or their more advanced platforms? Will this force be deploying before cold weather sets in... or will they be arriving with the weather as an additional adversairy? Longer nights in the late fall/winter means not just cold but more darkness for an army baffilingly short on nightvision equipment.

If this involuntary force of his is actually assembled and actually makes it to Ukraine we need to make sure Ukraine has all the munitions, and equipment of the types they can utilize that we(and that means all of NATO too) can spare.

Whatever "mobilization" Russia does muster will take time, so any systems(beyond the "protected tech") we can train them on in that timeframe we should do so.

Russia has been fairly conservative in deploying their aircraft (those things are pricey), but given the severity of mobilization, I suspect they will be more agressive. Whatever equipment we have that can keep the skies contested is a must.

Without air superiority Russian forces will have a numerical advantage on the ground, but if Ukraine has systems in abundance that give them an advantage in visibility, range, percision, etc... it will not matter.

So we have a large force of green troops that are poorly equipped, entering the conflict with the low morale that comes with being pressed into service. If they find themselves taking the kind of losses I expect they will facing a better equipped and trained force with experience and HFA on their side... That is a recipe for what I have hoped for from the beginning, a "soldiers strike".

 

[baarbogast]

 

[Sailorsaint]

Innernets, could be old footage and all that, but maybe.

“Unauthorized” protest…they forgot to get their permit from the kremlin. So, they arrest the protesters, then conscript them, then send them to Ukraine.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

“Unauthorized” protest…they forgot to get their permit from the kremlin. So, they arrest the protesters, then conscript them, then send them to Ukraine.

I hope Ukraine is prepared to accept all the refugees Putin is sending their way.

 

[porculator]

Since this has started China and India have both taken the anti-west path and called it neutral. They are just as responsible as Russia for what's went on in Ukraine. I've thought for awhile now that they should be on the sanctions list for supporting Russia because they could've already helped put pressure on Russia to stop this and didn't.

We can't afford to turn the screws on China the way we have on Russia. Similarly China and India can't afford to turn the screws on Russia the way the US/EU have.

This is the price of globalization.

Sanctions hurt everyone involved. The US can withstand them better than anyone, but they still suck. Sanctioning China would devastate them, but also suck for us considerably. If they were more rational actors, we could expect the threat of sanctions to put them in their place somewhat, but they don't always act in their own best interest (see ridiculous Covid lockdowns)

 

[rail]

No tea, no cigarettes, no problem

Whoa! Let me sit down for a minute. . . I feel faint from this shocking news.

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

We can't afford to turn the screws on China the way we have on Russia. Similarly China and India can't afford to turn the screws on Russia the way the US/EU have.

This is the price of globalization.

Sanctions hurt everyone involved. The US can withstand them better than anyone, but they still suck. Sanctioning China would devastate them, but also suck for us considerably. If they were more rational actors, we could expect the threat of sanctions to put them in their place somewhat, but they don't always act in their own best interest (see ridiculous Covid lockdowns)

Yea, we're not in any position politically to accept the pain of imposing sanctions.

Partisans would blame the pain on the other party, and we'd be fighting each other over it instead of accepting the pain as part of our contribution to the effort.

 

[baarbogast]