Under the Radar Free Agents (1 Viewer)

[NOFALCONS10]

Devin Taylor comped to Aldon Smith? Yikes! I dont know, man. Aldon Smith is ultra explosive, has clear cut edge bend, is relentless, powerful, and his athleticism actually translates on the field. Aside from being big, long, and straight line fast, Taylor hasnt ever shown any of those qualities, not even at S.CAR.

Taylor's been in a base 4-3 DE his entire career, college and in the pros. Plus Taylor, is lumbering, poor acceleration and closing speed. He has weak, lazy hand use, and seriously lacks the agility and flexibility you want as a pass rusher, regardless of the front he's playing in. Taylor is like a Frankenstien on the field, when we need werewolves running around on D.

And I wouldnt say that either guy is being used wrong. They just dont have that skill set to do so. I mean cool, theyre both super athletes, give them gold medals. But as we've seen many time over, athletes arent always the best football players. Neither Taylor, nor Hunt, has ever lined up at OLB. Theyre both barely doing anything at their current positions, and OLB would put even more responsibilities on their shoulders. If theyre already slow off the snap in a 3pt, then they'd be even worse standing up w/runaway in front of them. Plus, I dont think Taylor, or Hunt, are better than our back ups. I think they'd both be rotational back ups, to our back ups, and would be ST players at best.

And as for the 3-4, 4-3 stuff. I'll say it again, in this day and age, multiple fronts have taken over and have become the norm league wide. Teams run both, and what's more, is that we run a 3 Safety look. That means neither of those conventional fronts fully apply to us, the Saints.

I mean, look at the college level, guys are being cross trained and literally have an A and a B position. Theyre DE/OLBs, DT/DEs, S/LBs, CB/S, WR/RB, TE/WR, I can on, and on. These are the players who are coming out. The future is now, and to be successful in the modern day NFL, I think you have to let go of a lot those old philosophies.

I guess we're at another impasse in terms of view. I would pass on both guys. Neither one fits the bill of a pressure players. Here's some of Devin Taylor's S.CAR film. I just dont see a guy who can play OLB or consistently bring the kind of pressure we need to to make a diff on D.

On a side note, look at Rex Burkhead! That's a guy we should take a long look at.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/a0WATmSQR3A" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Aldon Smith was never as good as the 9er front line made him look when he had Justin Smith playing in front of him collapsing the pocket. Without Justin Smith his numbers decreased dramatically.

Also dig up some of Aldon Smith's old Mizz tape.
Wasn't that much different except that he played some snaps at defensive tackle.


Poor acceleration and closing speed? Did you even watch the two hits he got on qb in the video you posted? Also Taylor beat smith in Several categories at the comebine.

I've heard the "multiple front/3-safety" speeches here ad nauseum. Call me when it amounts to anything more than the leagues worst defense.
There's nothing inherently superior about multiple fronts if you don't have the perspersonnel to execute it properly. The saints won the super bowl ib a base 4-3 with heavy nickel and were the dome patrol with a base 3-4. Whatever works best and fits your available talent.


The patriots find low risk free agents like Kevin Hogan, Edelman, Bennett, Blount, and Ninkovich and squeeze the most out of their athletic talent.

The saints need more under the radar super athletes on the rise.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Which reminds me Keyarris Garrett is another Wr that may still be on the Panthers' practice squad that they can sign away like Snead.

 

[Whodat GT]

I think signing C.Patterson to be a Pass catcher out of the backfield would be an excellent reclamation project.

 

[Joodas Avila]

Aldon Smith was never as good as the 9er front line made him look when he had Justin Smith playing in front of him collapsing the pocket. Without Justin Smith his numbers decreased dramatically.

Also dig up some of Aldon Smith's old Mizz tape.
Wasn't that much different except that he played some snaps at defensive tackle.


Poor acceleration and closing speed? Did you even watch the two hits he got on qb in the video you posted? Also Taylor beat smith in Several categories at the comebine.

I've heard the "multiple front/3-safety" speeches here ad nauseum. Call me when it amounts to anything more than the leagues worst defense.
There's nothing inherently superior about multiple fronts if you don't have the perspersonnel to execute it properly. The saints won the super bowl ib a base 4-3 with heavy nickel and were the dome patrol with a base 3-4. Whatever works best and fits your available talent.


The patriots find low risk free agents like Kevin Hogan, Edelman, Bennett, Blount, and Ninkovich and squeeze the most out of their athletic talent.

The saints need more under the radar super athletes on the rise.

Dude, you dont seem to get it. Edelman wasnt a FA, Bennett was already a baller coming in, and those other guys are full on role players. Dont forget who their QB is, like that doesnt play into it. Do you honestly think Hogan, Blount, and Ninkovich would be gamebreakers outside of NE? LOL, you prob do. But hey, that's all good, that's you buddy.

As for the Taylor bizz, and comparing him to Aldon Smith, and him bettering Smith at the combine... WOW! Youre talking like the combine is the be all, end all, and we all know that that's just not true. As football players, Aldon Smith and Dev Taylor are like a universe apart. It's almost comical that youre saying their names in the same breath. Fine, I guess they match up in their underwear, but in pads, youre trippin.

Youre jocking Taylor and attempting to vilify your point w/two plays. TWO PLAYS, MAN! Dude, so youre a two play scout, now? Lol, so Taylor had maybe 4-5 nice plays in that vid, but what about the other 80 sum odd other snaps where he was basically ineffective? I mean, ya...When you dont block the guy, of course he's gonna hit the QB a lot of the time. But c'mon, how often does a guy go unblocked? And here's the clincher, as a 16 starter, Taylor had 4.5 sacks. That's what he did w/his opportunity, and that's why Det is prob gonna let him walk.

So, using your rational, we need more "super athletes"? Super athletes like Vernon Gholston, Aaron Curry, Dion Jordan, Keke Mingo, Dee Milliner, Justin Gilbert, and other such talents? Dude, guys like this have two things in common; of course, theyre all super athletes, BUT NONE OF THEM ARE FOOTBALL PLAYERS. I mean, where are these guys at right now? Theyre either riding a bench or out of the league completely.

Plus, we've totally had these super athletes youre talking about before. We have a guy that fits that profile on the team right now, in Steph Anthony, and that's not going well at all. We've fielded Tebucky Jones, Josh Bullocks, John Sullivan, Rufus Johnson, Davis Tull, Tez Wilson, Stanley Jean-Baptiste, Ronald Powell, Chip Vaughn, etc., etc., etc. I think it's pretty clear that your "super Athlete" philosophy has gaping holes in it. If a guy's not a football player first, w/a football players head for the game, it wont matter how super he is.

As for the "multiple front/3-safety" talk that's turning your tummy, well, those are the facts, man. That's the truth of what's going on at EVERY LEVEL of the game these days. Look it up. And I never said the multiple fronts was "inherently superior", youre the one who assumed that. I just stated that that's what we, and everyone else in football is doing, CAUSE IT'S THE TRUTH.

And we won the title back in 09, damn near a decade ago. You can deny it and reject the facts all you want, but the game has clearly changed, my friend. Dont hate on evolution. You need to jump in a Delorean and come back to the future, cause youre POV seems stuck on some back in the day mess.

 

[Slaw]

4-3 and 3-4 is a thing of the past. Pretty much every team is playing with 5 DBs. It's just what you have to do to match up these days. I prefer 3 safeties and believe the saints do too, due to the added run support and versatility it brings.

That Taylor dude isn't on the same planet as Aldon Smith.

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Dude, you dont seem to get it. Edelman wasnt a FA, Bennett was already a baller coming in, and those other guys are full on role players. Dont forget who their QB is, like that doesnt play into it. Do you honestly think Hogan, Blount, and Ninkovich would be gamebreakers outside of NE? LOL, you prob do. But hey, that's all good, that's you buddy.

As for the Taylor bizz, and comparing him to Aldon Smith, and him bettering Smith at the combine... WOW! Youre talking like the combine is the be all, end all, and we all know that that's just not true. As football players, Aldon Smith and Dev Taylor are like a universe apart. It's almost comical that youre saying their names in the same breath. Fine, I guess they match up in their underwear, but in pads, youre trippin.

Youre jocking Taylor and attempting to vilify your point w/two plays. TWO PLAYS, MAN! Dude, so youre a two play scout, now? Lol, so Taylor had maybe 4-5 nice plays in that vid, but what about the other 80 sum odd other snaps where he was basically ineffective? I mean, ya...When you dont block the guy, of course he's gonna hit the QB a lot of the time. But c'mon, how often does a guy go unblocked? And here's the clincher, as a 16 starter, Taylor had 4.5 sacks. That's what he did w/his opportunity, and that's why Det is prob gonna let him walk.

So, using your rational, we need more "super athletes"? Super athletes like Vernon Gholston, Aaron Curry, Dion Jordan, Keke Mingo, Dee Milliner, Justin Gilbert, and other such talents? Dude, guys like this have two things in common; of course, theyre all super athletes, BUT NONE OF THEM ARE FOOTBALL PLAYERS. I mean, where are these guys at right now? Theyre either riding a bench or out of the league completely.

Plus, we've totally had these super athletes youre talking about before. We have a guy that fits that profile on the team right now, in Steph Anthony, and that's not going well at all. We've fielded Tebucky Jones, Josh Bullocks, John Sullivan, Rufus Johnson, Davis Tull, Tez Wilson, Stanley Jean-Baptiste, Ronald Powell, Chip Vaughn, etc., etc., etc. I think it's pretty clear that your "super Athlete" philosophy has gaping holes in it. If a guy's not a football player first, w/a football players head for the game, it wont matter how super he is.

As for the "multiple front/3-safety" talk that's turning your tummy, well, those are the facts, man. That's the truth of what's going on at EVERY LEVEL of the game these days. Look it up. And I never said the multiple fronts was "inherently superior", youre the one who assumed that. I just stated that that's what we, and everyone else in football is doing, CAUSE IT'S THE TRUTH.

And we won the title back in 09, damn near a decade ago. You can deny it and reject the facts all you want, but the game has clearly changed, my friend. Dont hate on evolution. You need to jump in a Delorean and come back to the future, cause youre POV seems stuck on some back in the day mess.

Welker was a free agent. I mean I literally have no idea what Tom Brady has to do with Rob Ninkovich's sucess as an olb. That's like crediting Drew Brees for Galette or Cam Jordan's success.

Phil Savage was on record as saying that all he needed was 4 plays to scout a player at last year's senior bowl . You just dont seem to understand that there is an optimum athletic requirement for 3-4 olbs and that you cant just play them as 4-3 defensive ends all the time. Calvin Pace was a good example that I used to point out to Bonchie a few years ago. It's just pointless trying to get this across to you. Aaron lynch was a guy I liked recently that was a good example of that optimum 3-4 linebacker build like Ahmad Brooks who came in and did well for the 9ers.

Your rant against athletes are a false dichotomy because many great athletic prospects are also great football players too.


And for the last time this 3 safety hysteria is exaggerated and overblown. I said it in 2013 when they made that ridiculous Vaccaro pick over Xavier Rhodes as Im saying it now. You don't ideally try to fill a corner need with a safety. It's stupid. There's no more delicate ways to put it. If Breaux goes down you cant put Vaccaro at outside corner unless you want to get roasted.


Give me three Deion Sanderses over this 3 safety craze any day.

 

[GameBreaker]

Give me three Deion Sanderses over this 3 safety craze any day.

Well yeah. But where you gonna get 3 Deions? Fantasy land.

Its not about what you want, it's about what the market provides.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Well yeah. But where you gonna get 3 Deions? Fantasy land.

Its not about what you want, it's about what the market provides.

Chuckles...well said...but you can tell that Falcon trust his scouting so what you are arguing against is a scout who feels he's right.

If it were up to him we'd have Xavier Rhodes and William Jackson III right now. The problem with his POV is that business moves/future situations kind of force teams hands a bit.

The year we picked Vaccaro was due mostly due to recognizing that in a year the safety position might be in flux. Rafael Bush, Harper, and Jenkins would all be potentially walking out of the door in a year. Harper because his play vs pay was no longer lining up, Bush because he was a RFA (we matched Atlanta's offer last minute), and Malcolm because he was a FA.

You can't always just say hey this guy is great I'm going to pick him when you have to be able to foreshadow future problems. Hell i wanted Marcus Peters in 2015 but Strief was coming off a doo doo year and looked to be slowing down and his roster bonus's were starting to get bigger. RT is a premier position in this offense because Drew is good at navigating the pocket but pressure directly in his face causes issues...so having a legitimate RT is a must. So you end up with the Peat pick (which I think would have been Lael Collins had he not had his arrest issue pop up). Whom they drafted with intentions of moving on from Strief and his Salary in a year.

Regardless its not as easy as Falcon makes it seem with just drafting the player. The vision has to fit...sometimes the visions don't and you had to pass on a player. If the draft worked out where talent 1-10 was picked in that order then you'd get a lot of teams with players they didn't need.

If Drew Brees is 26 and you have the #1 pick and the best guy in the draft hands down is a QB are you going to pick the QB? Likely not....you'll pass becasue its not a need. Happens all the time and will continue to happen because teams draft BPA (at a position of need)

But but...we took Deuce McCallister when we had Ricky Williams....yeah well Ricky at that point had become a locker room issue and had worn out his welcome. Trust me they had no intention of holding on to both backs beyond that point...there was a plan b4 hand. RB would be a need position 1 year later and they knew it so they took Deuce. If BPA aligns with need and then fit then the player is taken if the BPA isn't a need or a fit or there is no vision you pass. Tunsil was probably the best talent available at 11 last year but with Peat, Strief, and Armstead all in the fold there was no need to take him.....so they tried to trade back and then eventually just took Rankins because he was a need lol. Need is usually going to trump BPA but there are times when they all line up.

Truth is it depends on how well you've done via FA and churning of your roster. If there are gigantic holes you are more likely to reach for a need.......if you've built your roster up and its sound then you'll have a chance to align BPA & need so they work in conjunction...but if you look around the league...more often than not...a team drafts what it needs to fill a weakness

 

[neworleanshoo]

I don't know about "under the radar" but I would love for us to take a sniff at Chris Long.

Chris Long To Leave Patriots As Free Agent, Announces On Instagram « CBS Boston

He really, really wants to be an impact player and he's a terrific guy to have in the locker room.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

IF the Cooks trade really happens I'd welcome Cordarelle Patterson with open arms.

 

[2cmorgan]

I'll take:

John Simon
A.J. Klein
Kayvon Webster

Then push hard for Zeitler

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Well yeah. But where you gonna get 3 Deions? Fantasy land.

Its not about what you want, it's about what the market provides.

Hyperbole much?

The point is to get good corners to fill a need at corner.

It's literally that simple.

 

[Slaw]

Hyperbole much?

The point is to get good corners to fill a need at corner.

It's literally that simple.

We need a corner, but we also need a safety. Vaccaro is best in his hybrid role, which lessens the need for a nickel corner.

 

[Joodas Avila]

Welker was a free agent. I mean I literally have no idea what Tom Brady has to do with Rob Ninkovich's sucess as an olb. That's like crediting Drew Brees for Galette or Cam Jordan's success.

Phil Savage was on record as saying that all he needed was 4 plays to scout a player at last year's senior bowl . You just dont seem to understand that there is an optimum athletic requirement for 3-4 olbs and that you cant just play them as 4-3 defensive ends all the time. Calvin Pace was a good example that I used to point out to Bonchie a few years ago. It's just pointless trying to get this across to you. Aaron lynch was a guy I liked recently that was a good example of that optimum 3-4 linebacker build like Ahmad Brooks who came in and did well for the 9ers.

Your rant against athletes are a false dichotomy because many great athletic prospects are also great football players too.


And for the last time this 3 safety hysteria is exaggerated and overblown. I said it in 2013 when they made that ridiculous Vaccaro pick over Xavier Rhodes as Im saying it now. You don't ideally try to fill a corner need with a safety. It's stupid. There's no more delicate ways to put it. If Breaux goes down you cant put Vaccaro at outside corner unless you want to get roasted.


Give me three Deion Sanderses over this 3 safety craze any day.

"Three Deion Sanderses"? "Four plays to scout a player"? "3 safety hysteria is exaggerated and overblown"?

Um...What? Dude, you're spinning your wheels bald hommie, lol! Then you go quoting yourself for something you wrote to Bonchie, as if youre actually something more than a guy who watches online football highlights and does off the mark player breakdowns. Maybe you can fool the average football fan w/your elementary knowledge, but to those who actually know the game, you're a comedian.

And the reason why it's "pointless trying to get across to me", is because your POV is dated at best, and I totally see through your Wizard Of Oz, guy behind the curtain gimic. You seem to fabricate facts, while denying them at the same time. But hey, to each their own, LOL!

 

[JWDtrey3]

Chuckles...well said...but you can tell that Falcon trust his scouting so what you are arguing against is a scout who feels he's right.

If it were up to him we'd have Xavier Rhodes and William Jackson III right now. The problem with his POV is that business moves/future situations kind of force teams hands a bit.

The year we picked Vaccaro was due mostly due to recognizing that in a year the safety position might be in flux. Rafael Bush, Harper, and Jenkins would all be potentially walking out of the door in a year. Harper because his play vs pay was no longer lining up, Bush because he was a RFA (we matched Atlanta's offer last minute), and Malcolm because he was a FA.

You can't always just say hey this guy is great I'm going to pick him when you have to be able to foreshadow future problems. Hell i wanted Marcus Peters in 2015 but Strief was coming off a doo doo year and looked to be slowing down and his roster bonus's were starting to get bigger. RT is a premier position in this offense because Drew is good at navigating the pocket but pressure directly in his face causes issues...so having a legitimate RT is a must. So you end up with the Peat pick (which I think would have been Lael Collins had he not had his arrest issue pop up). Whom they drafted with intentions of moving on from Strief and his Salary in a year.

Regardless its not as easy as Falcon makes it seem with just drafting the player. The vision has to fit...sometimes the visions don't and you had to pass on a player. If the draft worked out where talent 1-10 was picked in that order then you'd get a lot of teams with players they didn't need.

If Drew Brees is 26 and you have the #1 pick and the best guy in the draft hands down is a QB are you going to pick the QB? Likely not....you'll pass becasue its not a need. Happens all the time and will continue to happen because teams draft BPA (at a position of need)

But but...we took Deuce McCallister when we had Ricky Williams....yeah well Ricky at that point had become a locker room issue and had worn out his welcome. Trust me they had no intention of holding on to both backs beyond that point...there was a plan b4 hand. RB would be a need position 1 year later and they knew it so they took Deuce. If BPA aligns with need and then fit then the player is taken if the BPA isn't a need or a fit or there is no vision you pass. Tunsil was probably the best talent available at 11 last year but with Peat, Strief, and Armstead all in the fold there was no need to take him.....so they tried to trade back and then eventually just took Rankins because he was a need lol. Need is usually going to trump BPA but there are times when they all line up.

Truth is it depends on how well you've done via FA and churning of your roster. If there are gigantic holes you are more likely to reach for a need.......if you've built your roster up and its sound then you'll have a chance to align BPA & need so they work in conjunction...but if you look around the league...more often than not...a team drafts what it needs to fill a weakness

so you are saying it's complicated