Underhill article: The evolution of Brandin Cooks (1 Viewer)

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Keep in mind, it took players like A. Brown years to develop into the split-end type receiver that they did. Even if he doesn't become that, there's a reason why that style receiver fits Thomas' mold and not Cooks'.

He can run the entire route tree, but he's going to have to get stronger before we can start relying on him as an over the middle and contested receiver when facing top tier CBs.

No doubt but I think just going back to the article, you don't draw up those types of plays for him if you didn't think he could do it. Furthermore you don't minimize his role in those plays if it was something he was particularly good at.

I agree it takes time to develop but right out of the box we tried him as a Punt Returner and on the stated routes because you would expect a kid with his speed/agility based on the combine to make something in those areas or on those routes.

He failed miserably at Punt returner and then as we began to understand he wasn't the RAC monster we thought we were getting we utilized him differently.

I just read an article on Steve Smith where the particular WR coach that year said they were fond of guys who were Punt Returners in college because it means they could out of the box effect the game there and likely had good RAC ability. All they would need to do was develop him. They didn't think Smith would be who he became but the logic was sound.

Cooks only returned 3 punts in college (may be off on that number) but yet we still tried to line him up as one and have yet to give him back those duties though its arguable its because he's important but when you were as bad as we've been the last 2 years on PR's youd at least try him there if you thought he was good.

He's not...suggesting a bit of a misevaluation of the player on our part.


IT happens....all the time. Sometimes guys exceed expectations, sometimes they don't but you never stop developing them. I just don't know if his vision is going to just poof and come out of thin air. He'll improve on other things but vision is one of those things you either have or you don't. IMHO

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I usually like your posts but this is hogwash. What is your problem with Cooks?

You misread it but I guess. I never do a good job explaining this logic and it still appears as though its getting negative responses because its not understood so I digress. When you initially draft players you have a vision of what you think they can do. As the season progresses you either have that vision validated or denied. Based on the article and the routes/job we had him doing as a PR we had a certain vision for him. We found out quickly who he was as a player and adjusted the vision but using him different is all I'm saying. Not saying he's a bad player, terrible pick, or useless. Just that the initial vision for who the player was/his floor wasn't what we thought. His ceiling is still there I do believe but, whatever.

Slants/Curls etc are always going to be apart of the route tree but you might target a MT on those instead. We also moved him from the Z to the X receiver the following year to match him up on #2 CB's more often. I have the quote and have been pushing this logic for a while now but the quote is from Nick toon being moved to Z from the X position 1 year after we drafted Cooks which IMHO is apart of the vision change (also recall Drew saying that it was the year we'd made the most changes to the offense since he'd been there) for Cooks as we attempted to feature him in a role that fit him better.

Toon, who spent his first three years at the X receiver spot, has moved to the Z in the Saints’ base offense. Toon will line up off the ball more often, and he’ll be lining up on the strong side of the formation, as opposed to the weak side. Toon, at 6-foot-4 and 220 pounds, has become one of New Orleans’ better run blockers at receiver, an ability that can come in handy as an extra blocker outside the tight end.

After primarily lining Cooks up as the Z his rookie year we moved him to the X and switched Colston/Toons roles to be the Z receivers in the base. Granted they all still move around but primarily he played more on the weak side of the formation that year as opposed to the strong side against #1 CB's.

Still don't know if I'm making my point well enough but I'm no idiot and I don't think its hogwash, neither do i have something against Cooks. Why when you have an opinion on a player is it misconstrued as a form of hate?

http://www.theadvocate.com/new_orle...cle_64ee6012-feca-5305-be38-c87b37fdf973.html

Heres the other quote from Drew in 2015

“I’d say we’re doing probably more new things now than we ever have,” said Brees, who explained that this is always the time of year for experimenting with the playbook. “There’s always new ideas, there’s always offseason studies that you kind of undergo. And you say, ‘Hey, I think we can incorporate this into our offense. It’s something that Brandin Cooks could do really well, something Ben Watson could do really well, something the running backs could do really well.’

So its obvious there were some changes made to the offense with Cooks in mind and there were some alterations made from how we used him initially.

http://www.espn.com/blog/new-orlean...-more-new-things-than-ever-for-saints-offense

I'll delete the hogwash.

 

[dapperdan]

You misread it but I guess. I never do a good job explaining this logic and it still appears as though its getting negative responses because its not understood so I digress. When you initially draft players you have a vision of what you think they can do. As the season progresses you either have that vision validated or denied. Based on the article and the routes/job we had him doing as a PR we had a certain vision for him. We found out quickly who he was as a player and adjusted the vision but using him different is all I'm saying. Not saying he's a bad player, terrible pick, or useless. Just that the initial vision for who the player was/his floor wasn't what we thought. His ceiling is still there I do believe but, whatever.

I'll delete the hogwash.

I shouldn't of been so hard on you. My point is that Cooks first three seasons totally obliterate Steve Smith's first three seasons.

Have a great one man.

 

[duckjr78]

May want to pump the brakes there. I love our WRs but this is overboard.

Please feel free to show me the error of my ways. Perhaps there was a bit of hyperbole in my OP, but not much.

Thomas finished very, very high on some analytical sites, even missing a game and being a decoy for another.
Cooks would be the best WR on approximately 10 teams in the NFL. As Thomas, Cooks, and Snead all continue to improve, I see no reason why Cooks won't be looked at as the best #2 in the league.
Snead is better than half of the league's #2 WR.

Green Bay has 3 very good WR's, as do Det, AZ, and NY. But Boldin is hella old, Cruz is very injured, and Fitz is slowing down. Green Bay's guys are really good, but our guys are as good, younger, cheaper, and still improving.

I genuinely believe you are going to see 3 x 1,000 yard receivers next year with Thomas putting up huge numbers that will only be restricted by the fact that Cooks & Snead are so good and will get their looks as well.

 

[AARPSaint]

Maybe my perspective is off, but it seems to me that if you couple the top three Saints receivers with Brandon Coleman, you have a rather effective corps. Coleman is the sort of receiver that opposing defenses might forget about.

As for Cooks, he makes an incredibly scary #2 receiver, much like Devery Henderson. He might even be faster.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I shouldn't of been so hard on you. My point is that Cooks first three seasons totally obliterate Steve Smith's first three seasons.

Have a great one man.

Its the offense and who is throwing him the ball.

Put Steve Smith in this offense with Drew throwing him the ball and there is no contest. Just basing it on their 1st 3 years isn't enough to dictate the level of player that either was during the 1st 3 years of their respective careers. To many outside factors can dictate production.

Cooks was made a focal point after Sean specifically repeated all off-season we were looking for an explosive WR. He was then forcefed the ball A LOT in an offense that passes the ball above 60% of the time. Smith was brought up in a run 1st offense with an average to below average QB and his 1st year was as a role player/ punt returner.

Way tooo many factors.

 

[superchuck500]

In before Coleman gets slated for no good reason.

I like where Coleman is at this point. It seems like he has settled into his role - which is to provide solid, quality blocking on run plays, screen plays, and the like . . . and to provide his long physical range in red zone and other key yardage situations.

He had some dropsies but also made some key plays for us, along with the lunchpail blocking assignments. It seems like having a clearly defined role with specific demands suits him. He did a respectable job last year and seems to have established a pretty nice baseline that can only go up from here.

 

[longtime lurker]

With the quick emergence of Michael Thomas, the continued development of Brandin Cooks, Willie Snead's consistent contributions, and even Brandon Coleman starting to make some nice plays, John Morton deserves some serious credit as the receivers coach. He's simply doing a phenomenal job.

Well said. Major props to Coach Morton who did a fantastic job.

 

[meily]

two 1,000 yard seasons in his first 3 years and people are questioning his ability based off what routes were called for his to run? what ever Coolks is a #1 or #2 receiver he is good WR with speed, hands and shiftyness and we will be hard pressed to find another player like this.

 

[LoE]

Cooks, Thomas, Snead, Coleman (with Williams-Lambert in reserve)... I'm not worried about the receiving corps.

I'm worried about the defense, and the special teams unit.

 

[BoNcHiE]

Its the offense and who is throwing him the ball.

Put Steve Smith in this offense with Drew throwing him the ball and there is no contest. Just basing it on their 1st 3 years isn't enough to dictate the level of player that either was during the 1st 3 years of their respective careers. To many outside factors can dictate production.

Cooks was made a focal point after Sean specifically repeated all off-season we were looking for an explosive WR. He was then forcefed the ball A LOT in an offense that passes the ball above 60% of the time. Smith was brought up in a run 1st offense with an average to below average QB and his 1st year was as a role player/ punt returner.

Way tooo many factors.

Cooks got 1176 yards with just 117 targets.

By comparison, it took Jarvis Landry 145 targets to get 1156 yards. Larry Fitzgerald's 1076 yards came on 150 targets. Demaryius Thomas got 1083 yards on 144 targets. Golden Tate had 1077 yards on 140 targets. Michael Crabtree's 1003 yards came on 152 targets.

Brandin Cooks' production isn't a matter of being forcefed the ball. He's highly efficient despite getting less targets than dozens of guys he out-produced. Football Outsiders ranks him the 15th most valuable WR in the entire league based on their DYAR (Defensive adjusted yards above replacement) scoring. Michael Thomas is 2nd.

He's just a really talented WR who most on this board can't seem to give full credit to.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Cooks got 1176 yards with just 117 targets.

By comparison, it took Jarvis Landry 145 targets to get 1156 yards. Larry Fitzgerald's 1076 yards came on 150 targets. Demaryius Thomas got 1083 yards on 144 targets. Golden Tate had 1077 yards on 140 targets. Michael Crabtree's 1003 yards came on 152 targets.

Brandin Cooks' production isn't a matter of being forcefed the ball. He's highly efficient despite getting less targets than dozens of guys he out-produced. Football Outsiders ranks him the 15th most valuable WR in the entire league based on their DYAR (Defensive adjusted yards above replacement) scoring. Michael Thomas is 2nd.

He's just a really talented WR who most on this board can't seem to give full credit to.

Touche

 

[insidejob]

I think Nola has some decent writers, but they have them constantly trying to get twitter followers to join them in a chat in the comments section of chat articles unabashedly for the page clicks. Wen they're not doing that, they have them busy writing human interest pieces or provocative and sensationalist hot takes on team business, again, for the page views.



I get the competition for page views as it relates to advertising, but sacrificing all content and journalistic licence for the effort to pull in casual sports fans at the expense of the more hardcore sports reader seems counter intuitive to me. But that's just my opinion.

Totally agree. Seems like the Advocate is interested in getting readers while the TP is only interested in clicks.

I'm willing to bet that the Advocate is beating them in both, when it comes to the sports section at least.

It's a shame, really. The Pic is a shell of the outfit it was pre-Katrina. They really should have let Benson buy it when he made them an offer.

All of this is totally off-topic...not trying to thread jack. Again, great read by the best beat writer the Saints have. Thanks for posting.

 

[dapperdan]

Its the offense and who is throwing him the ball.

Put Steve Smith in this offense with Drew throwing him the ball and there is no contest. Just basing it on their 1st 3 years isn't enough to dictate the level of player that either was during the 1st 3 years of their respective careers. To many outside factors can dictate production.

Cooks was made a focal point after Sean specifically repeated all off-season we were looking for an explosive WR. He was then forcefed the ball A LOT in an offense that passes the ball above 60% of the time. Smith was brought up in a run 1st offense with an average to below average QB and his 1st year was as a role player/ punt returner.

Way tooo many factors.

I would argue that you are making my point. When Smith was in Carolina he was it and Carolina qbs looked for him almost exclusively. Drew spreads the ball around so I tend to think Cooks would destroy Smith in stats if he was the only weapon.

 

[boutte]

Ithink Elias is right. He's not what they thought he was when they drafted him. He's just not that elusive with the ball in his hands. Doesn't mean he's not a great WR. Just that he's not a guy that's going to turn screens and hooks into long gainers. And he sure isn't a great punt returner.

But don't let him get a step on you.