Upon Further Review: Defense vs Car (1 Viewer)

stevo3

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During my lunchbreak, I went back and re-watched the entire game (Defense Only) and keyed specifically on the secondary. Here's my take-away's:

1. Carolina went at Ceedy Deuce (CGJ) alot. ALOT. Reason being, he was asked to play man coverage on the slot receiver the entire game. I thought that's what we brought P. Rob in to do? And isn't that PJ William's specialty? I get wanting to have your best players on the field, but it doesn't do any good if you are playing them out of position or putting them in a position to fail. He's not a man corner, he's a SS. That's on the coaches. Good coaches put their players in a position to succeed by playing to their strengths.

2. Marcus Williams still can't tackle. Shocker, I know. And he can still be counted on for at least one massively blown coverage assignment per game. Overall though, his play was ok.

3. Why is Alex Anzalone starting? He is a liability out there. When he's not getting washed out by any offensive player in his field of view, he's missing tackles or getting burned in the pass game. Seriously, he's nothing but a player on the field right now who contributes nothing that is visible.

4. Malcolm Jenkins looks lost. There were multiple plays where the defense made checks and he had no idea what he was supposed to do. He seemed to be out of position often, scrambling just before the snap to recover, only to get in another defender's way. And he was very rarely in position to make plays on the ball or a tackle. (The last statement can also be used for Marcus Williams)

5. Our D-Line is a problem.... for the opponents. Seriously, I'm not sure what all the complaining is about? These guys were constantly putting pressure on Teddy B, but he had a lot of easy completions to whomever CGJ was covering when the pressure got there, or he scrambled, and well I might add. The run game is non-existent against these guys. They constantly penetrate and get into the backfield to disrupt the plays. They make our linebackers look really good. (Except for Anzalone, of course). If they stay healthy, I think over the next couple of games of gelling with a healthy Davenport, the sacks will start coming in bunches. Which should also lead to more turnovers.

6. Marshon Lattimore is still our best defensive player. Yes, he gave up a couple of completions, but he has quietly become the best tackler on the team. The dude is playing angry and it is evident in his tackling.

7. Jackrabbit is still a really good corner. He gave up one completion that I saw, and I'm not sure if his receiver was targeted for the rest of the game.

8. I'm really starting to wish we had paid Teddy to be the heir apparent. He looked really good out there. He was calm, made very few mistakes, and operated very efficiently. Not sure what front office was thinking in letting him go knowing Drew had maybe one more year??? Especially after he showed what he could do in the 5 game stint last year.

In a nutshell, the defense didn't play all that bad. Carolina spotted a weakness early (CGJ playing man against the slot receiver) and exploited it the entire game. That's on the coaches to identify this also and put someone else out there or change up the coverage/assignments. If I could spot it watching the game from my desk eating lunch, surely they could too???
 

Deucewildin

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Problem is Dennis Allen , putting players at their best position.

Been saying since Preseason : Prob should be in the Nickel CJG needs to either move to SS Jenkins To FS /nickel what he played in Philly

Williams is our best defender as far as hands and ball skills but put simply he doesn’t trust his team mates and looks lost .

This defense has no discipline we’re just playing off talent out there

Year after year no ones gets better only worse in our Defense . It’s a reoccurring problem that needs to be fixed

From
Stephane Anthony
Delvin Breaux
Jarius Bryd
M.Lattimore
M.Williams
J. Jenkins
CJG
M. Jenkins
Harper
P.Kruger
K.Alonso
A.Analonze


The list goes on and on of players who came in year one showed promising potiental and regressed , was a pro bowl or All pro player came here and regressed , or left here had career years then returned and was avg or bad again.

It’s one common person. Who was calling the shots !

We should have a Top 5 Defense

DE-Jordan,Davenport, Henderickson
DT-Rankins,Omenyeta,Brown
MLB-Alonso
WLB-Davis
SLB -Anazolone

CB-Jenkins/Lattimore
NCB/Dime -Robinson/Jenkins
FS-M.Williams
SS-CJG

It starts at the top detail and accountability, coaching and instilling gameplan .
 

IceHot

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Well done. For juxtaposition can you do Car Defense vs Us.? The Panthers somewhat represent a middle of the road defense and an analysis of a middle of the road team would help to contrast the claims of "horrendous" secondary play, "worthless" LBers, "over-the-hill" pass rushers, cant tackle, etc.
 

IceHot

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The list goes on and on of players who came in year one showed promising potiental and regressed , was a pro bowl or All pro player came here and regressed , or left here had career years then returned and was avg or bad again.
Are we regressing or perhaps NFL Defenses in general are regressing by design?

Consider in 2015 the league defensive average for Scores per Drive was 34.3%, this year its 41.3%. It is hard to say the defensive objectives are the same. Its no longer stop the other team from scoring, but rather stop them from scoring more often than not and play tough Red Zone football.
 
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stevo3

stevo3

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Well done. For juxtaposition can you do Car Defense vs Us.? The Panthers somewhat represent a middle of the road defense and an analysis of a middle of the road team would help to contrast the claims of "horrendous" secondary play, "worthless" LBers, "over-the-hill" pass rushers, cant tackle, etc.
Yeah, maybe later this week. But I can state this with absolute certainty: When Drew gets good protection and Payton commits to running the football, we will win the game. Doesn't matter who is(n't) playing receiver. Protect Drew and run the ball, we win.

I will say that I was surprised after I re-watched as I was feeling the same way as alot of the posters on here wanting to run the defense out of town. Because outside of CGJ getting victimized repeatedly, and M Williams' brain fart in coverage, the defense played well. The fault absolutely lies at the feet of the coaches on keeping CGJ in that role.
 
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stevo3

stevo3

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Problem is Dennis Allen , putting players at their best position.

Been saying since Preseason : Prob should be in the Nickel CJG needs to either move to SS Jenkins To FS /nickel what he played in Philly

Williams is our best defender as far as hands and ball skills but put simply he doesn’t trust his team mates and looks lost .

This defense has no discipline we’re just playing off talent out there

Year after year no ones gets better only worse in our Defense . It’s a reoccurring problem that needs to be fixed

From
Stephane Anthony
Delvin Breaux
Jarius Bryd
M.Lattimore
M.Williams
J. Jenkins
CJG
M. Jenkins
Harper
P.Kruger
K.Alonso
A.Analonze


The list goes on and on of players who came in year one showed promising potiental and regressed , was a pro bowl or All pro player came here and regressed , or left here had career years then returned and was avg or bad again.

It’s one common person. Who was calling the shots !

We should have a Top 5 Defense

DE-Jordan,Davenport, Henderickson
DT-Rankins,Omenyeta,Brown
MLB-Alonso
WLB-Davis
SLB -Anazolone

CB-Jenkins/Lattimore
NCB/Dime -Robinson/Jenkins
FS-M.Williams
SS-CJG

It starts at the top detail and accountability, coaching and instilling gameplan .
I'm not sure I buy the "regression" theory anymore. I think it's more a matter of discipline to do one's job and only their job, awareness of situation and responsibilities / assigments, and coaches failing to make the proper adjustments, as with CGJ. It's not his fault he is not a man corner, and he shouldn't have been asked to do so, for sure not the entire game.
 

saintmike23

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There’s a lot of blame on the coaches but Marcus Williams doesn’t understand a simple zone concept. Come on! It looks like he’s working for Vegas out there. A guy crosses your face and you choose the one who is already covered?

Dennis Allen needs to go, but so does Williams and Jenkins. They must be ballers in practice but fail on game day.

Teddy looked ok last year but he wasn’t $20 million per year good. And he still isn’t. Also, we can’t sign him and take on Brees contract.

Robby Anderson is going to make a lot of guys look bad. It would probably be the same result with the other players. I just don’t like man coverage because it’s easy to exploit if you read it pre snap.
 
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stevo3

stevo3

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There’s a lot of blame on the coaches but Marcus Williams doesn’t understand a simple zone concept. Come on! It looks like he’s working for Vegas out there. A guy crosses your face and you choose the one who is already covered?

Dennis Allen needs to go, but so does Williams and Jenkins. They must be ballers in practice but fail on game day.

Teddy looked ok last year but he wasn’t $20 million per year good. And he still isn’t. Also, we can’t sign him and take on Brees contract.

Robby Anderson is going to make a lot of guys look bad. It would probably be the same result with the other players. I just don’t like man coverage because it’s easy to exploit if you read it pre snap.
I'm not going to derail my own thread with a Teddy B. debate. I thought he looked pretty good, and he would look even better with the Saints O-line and weapons.

But I'm really starting to come around on the thinking that the Def Coaches not named Nielsen need to go. I could maybe give Hodges a pass since it's his first year as a LB coach and he's probably still getting his feet wet with no offseason.
 

Quiet Storm

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During my lunchbreak, I went back and re-watched the entire game (Defense Only) and keyed specifically on the secondary. Here's my take-away's:

1. Carolina went at Ceedy Deuce (CGJ) alot. ALOT. Reason being, he was asked to play man coverage on the slot receiver the entire game. I thought that's what we brought P. Rob in to do? And isn't that PJ William's specialty? I get wanting to have your best players on the field, but it doesn't do any good if you are playing them out of position or putting them in a position to fail. He's not a man corner, he's a SS. That's on the coaches. Good coaches put their players in a position to succeed by playing to their strengths.

2. Marcus Williams still can't tackle. Shocker, I know. And he can still be counted on for at least one massively blown coverage assignment per game. Overall though, his play was ok.

3. Why is Alex Anzalone starting? He is a liability out there. When he's not getting washed out by any offensive player in his field of view, he's missing tackles or getting burned in the pass game. Seriously, he's nothing but a player on the field right now who contributes nothing that is visible.

4. Malcolm Jenkins looks lost. There were multiple plays where the defense made checks and he had no idea what he was supposed to do. He seemed to be out of position often, scrambling just before the snap to recover, only to get in another defender's way. And he was very rarely in position to make plays on the ball or a tackle. (The last statement can also be used for Marcus Williams)

5. Our D-Line is a problem.... for the opponents. Seriously, I'm not sure what all the complaining is about? These guys were constantly putting pressure on Teddy B, but he had a lot of easy completions to whomever CGJ was covering when the pressure got there, or he scrambled, and well I might add. The run game is non-existent against these guys. They constantly penetrate and get into the backfield to disrupt the plays. They make our linebackers look really good. (Except for Anzalone, of course). If they stay healthy, I think over the next couple of games of gelling with a healthy Davenport, the sacks will start coming in bunches. Which should also lead to more turnovers.

6. Marshon Lattimore is still our best defensive player. Yes, he gave up a couple of completions, but he has quietly become the best tackler on the team. The dude is playing angry and it is evident in his tackling.

7. Jackrabbit is still a really good corner. He gave up one completion that I saw, and I'm not sure if his receiver was targeted for the rest of the game.

8. I'm really starting to wish we had paid Teddy to be the heir apparent. He looked really good out there. He was calm, made very few mistakes, and operated very efficiently. Not sure what front office was thinking in letting him go knowing Drew had maybe one more year??? Especially after he showed what he could do in the 5 game stint last year.

In a nutshell, the defense didn't play all that bad. Carolina spotted a weakness early (CGJ playing man against the slot receiver) and exploited it the entire game. That's on the coaches to identify this also and put someone else out there or change up the coverage/assignments. If I could spot it watching the game from my desk eating lunch, surely they could too???
After that game I did think about it and noticed as well it was Gardner-Johnson who was getting picked on. Lattimore and Jenkins didn't really see much action.

I don't know if Gardner-Johnson got pulled later but I did see PJ Williams come in later.

As for Anzalone, I pointed out earlier in the year..maybe week 2 or 3 that he has no clue what he is doing. Most of the time when an RB is running wide open in the flat it's his responsibility. I think he's the one calling the defense for up front. I've never been impressed with him. He's slow to react and has no clue what he's doing.
 
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stevo3

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PJ and P.Rob came in for 1 or 2 plays that I saw on the final drive. That's it.

And yes, I'm done with AA. He's 10x's worse than "The Shanle" who drew so much ire around here years ago. At least he knew his assignments and responsibilities. AA is rarely in position to make a play, and never does when he is.
 

nolaswede

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Thanks for posting, good stuff. Why isn’t PRob playing? Can it be any worse?

I remember when Gruden, week 2 vs us, pulled a cornerback in the 2nd quarter because he kept getting beat. Why can’t we do that sometimes?
 

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We only made them punt 1 time in 6 possessions.

3 of the 4 scores ended up in the end zone.

The points given up was only stunted because our offense ate up 35 minutes of the clock.

We didn't play well defensively.
 

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Those are cogent well-considered thoughts! Thank You!

Any discussion of what happened Sunday starts with CJC, who looked lost. I love CJC, I love that everyone wants to punch him in his face. There was a clip from the first game against Tampa where you can hear someone saying "F--- you 22. Little b----". Hahaha. But he clearly hit the ceiling - use him to spell Malcolm on run situations. If they would just put PJ in, he could do what they are asking in the 3 safety look, able to deliver press coverage with technique, with Marcus over the top, as opposed to whatever it is that CJC is trying to do out there.

They tried to adjust, but only once or twice actually plugging in PJ for CJC. We ran more 3 LB Defense that we've seen all season and the results were more horrifying than the 2 LB looks, in my humble opinion. We've got nothing there - you complain about Anz but God help us if he gets hurt. He may be getting washed out but at least he's getting washed out in the right gap. Plus, he's got big plays in him.
 

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I don't agree on Anzalone. From what I can see on the broadcast footage, he seems to be the only linebacker that's consistently around the ball in coverage and against the run. There were two plays I remember him specifically being the first in the backfield. But that bogus PI on AA against the Lions TE (I think it was) is why he's on the roster, because he can keep up with anyone who doesn't base their game purely around speed. There's a visible drop off in athleticism when he's not playing. Just my opinion, though.
 

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