N/S Urban Meyer Now Jaguars Coach (1 Viewer)

All well and good but the ball is outside the frame and I doubt the event was conducted by NFL talent evaluators with a radar gun.

You claimed to have ball Velocity data.


Call me when you have more than anecdotes, unsubstantiated rumors, or grainy videos from high school competitions that don't include the entire shot of the pass.

I've personally never seen Lawrence throw a football more than 60 yards or even near 60 without a running start and the video the other guy above posted makes me even more skeptical than before.
If Lawrence is lucky enough, lets suppose hypothetically, to get a halfway decent, good O-line and Meyer and Jags FO are saavy or intelligent enough to lure enough talented FA's on both sides of the ball(and they have more then enough cap money do it right now) if Lawrence is instructed early on in his development to stay safe, play smart and wisely learn and grow his fundamentals, do you think he can achieve some meaningful success early on?

What's more important for an incoming rookie QB? Having a strong arm, but a mediocre-terrible O-line or lack of offensive weapons like Mayfield suffered under his first couple of seasons. Or would you be willing to give a promising QB who may not have THE strongest passing arm or velocity compared to rest of his fellow NFL Draft QB contemporaries but has a much higher, intelligent football IQ, can read and react to complex defenses, their adjustments, schemes and with a good O-line and good offensive foundation in place, he can be more dangerous and effective in helping his team move the ball and score consistently while not having to awe home or opposing fans, sports writers, or ESPN pundits, talking heads on shows like Get Up, First Take or NFL Live how strong and how far he can pass the ball?
 
?

I think the latter part of your statement in your last above-written post also reveals why powerful, extremely strong-armed QBs like Jeff George, and Dante Culpepper skills sets get over-estimated and magnified where very few scouts take into consideration other intangibles like behavior, on-and-off the field attitudes, high or low Wonderlic IQ scores, ability to read and adjust to defensive shifts or complex defensive arrangements or schemes, or whether they turn out to be malcontents. Jeff George's powerful strong arm got him innumerable chances long after Indy discarded. Some teams(Atl in 1994-95, and Minnesota in 1999), others(Washington 2000, Oakland 1997-98) he just was a decent stats guy who never really won even with decent talent around him.

Culpepper certainly wasn't a malcontent, but his overall career success has to be viewed in context of who drafted him and how stacked the roster was when he got there. Minnesota in 2000 was still a championship-caliber team loaded with All-Pros and future HOFs on both sides of the ball, plus the most electrifying WR of his era in Randy Moss. Culpepper was also a very mobile, dual threat QB when he first arrived so his mobility and speed helped cover up future problems like adapting to being a pocket passer for several years. Once Moss left and Carter departed to Miami and then retired and that great O-line he inherited retired, or was traded away and he lost a lot of his ability after his ACL injury in 2005 season, Daunte had already reached his career ceiling and was a gradual downward slope from then on out.


Jeff George was largely considered a bust, not to mention guys like Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Kyle Boller, etc.

You're completely right that history is littered with strong-armed busts who just didn't have it between the ears and/or lacked the mentality to succeed on the next level.

I wonder how Culpepper would've turned out if he would've stayed healthy.

We will always owe him a solid for keeping Miami away from Brees.
 
As Much as I like Mac Jones I can easily see Zach Wilson going #1 overall.

The comparisons to Baker Mayfield and Russell Wilson are spot on.

If Wilson rips it with 60+ Ball Velocity and runs in the 4.5 range I think you even have to compare him to a guy like Kyler Murray or Andrew Luck as well.





Zach Wilson strikes me more as a newer, younger, mobile upgraded Andrew Luck 2.0 type of QB then a Baker-clone. Texas QB Sam Erlinger strikes me more as fitting into the Mayfield style characteristics with his scrambling, mobility, arm strength and determination to not give up on a play, offensive drive, or even when his team is down late in the 3rd quarter by 2-3 TD's to try and find a way to lead his team to a come-from-behind victory. Those are athletic and character/personality traits that fit Erlinger more into the Mayfield mold, than anything.
 
Jeff George was largely considered a bust, not to mention guys like Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell, Kyle Boller, etc.

You're completely right that history is littered with strong-armed busts who just didn't have it between the ears and/or lacked the mentality to succeed on the next level.

I wonder how Culpepper would've turned out if he would've stayed healthy.

We will always owe him a solid for keeping Miami a was at from Brees.
Even if Culpepper hadn't suffered his ACL injury which ended his time as Vikings starting QB and he lost most of his ability, I have my doubts whether he could've adapted into a more traditional pockets passing QB who could read multiple coverages. That's the inevitable fate even legendary, awe-inspiring dual purpose mobile QBs have to accept and evolve to as their careers progress. Irregardless of whether its Steve Grogan, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham, Michael Vick, Mark Brunell, etc. Culpepper never really gave me any strong signs he could do that even during his Pro-Bowl prime years in Minnesota. Maybe if his original Vikings HC and mentor, Dennis Green, hadn't been fired midway through his 2nd season, things maybe would've turned out differently. A lot of early 2000's Vikings players like Moss did say the culture and organizational structure changed dramatically and not necessarily for the better, after Green left.
 
If Lawrence is lucky enough, lets suppose hypothetically, to get a halfway decent, good O-line and Meyer and Jags FO are saavy or intelligent enough to lure enough talented FA's on both sides of the ball(and they have more then enough cap money do it right now) if Lawrence is instructed early on in his development to stay safe, play smart and wisely learn and grow his fundamentals, do you think he can achieve some meaningful success early on?

What's more important for an incoming rookie QB? Having a strong arm, but a mediocre-terrible O-line or lack of offensive weapons like Mayfield suffered under his first couple of seasons. Or would you be willing to give a promising QB who may not have THE strongest passing arm or velocity compared to rest of his fellow NFL Draft QB contemporaries but has a much higher, intelligent football IQ, can read and react to complex defenses, their adjustments, schemes and with a good O-line and good offensive foundation in place, he can be more dangerous and effective in helping his team move the ball and score consistently while not having to awe home or opposing fans, sports writers, or ESPN pundits, talking heads on shows like Get Up, First Take or NFL Live how strong and how far he can pass the ball?

Honestly, I believe in Lawrence.

I think a guy like him would be the perfect heir to Drew Brees in our west-coast system based on intermediate passes in Payton's system.

I love his footwork.

I really can't say enough about his feet and mid-range passing. It's his deep accuracy that concerns me because he doesn't seem to hit on deep plays as well as Jones and Wilson.


If you get him players who are good at YAC (a TE like Kelce or wr like AB) I think he can have a tremendous Career but I don't think he translate into a vertical passing system like most of the rest of these qbs.

It's not just a matter of arm-strength either, but of accuracy, ball-placement and recognition of deep concepts.

That's just the issue.

I don't think that his football IQ exceeds that of either Jones or Wilson as a pure passer.


Would Lawrence eventually justify the #1 pick surround by the right talent? Absolutely.

Is he the best option at #1 for the Jaguars football-wise in my opinion .

Far and away no.
 
Forgot about Michael Thomas connection to him. His tweet about things now getting interesting is well kinda interesting.
 
Considering that Herbert and Mayfield had the best rookie seasons ever, it's a lot to ask of Lawrence to meet or surpass that.


I mean let's get serious. Herbert had great weapons and finished with 36 tds.

But like I said, Lawrence makes little sense for the Jags by three different standards.

1) he's not the best player in the draft regardless of position. Waddle, Chase, and Smith are.

2) He doesn't have the most upside or physical talent at qb. That's Fields, Wilson, and Lance.

3) He isn't as good of a pure passer as Jones and Wilson.


I'm just not seeing what everyone else is seeing here.
It's all about opinions I guess and sometimes you get a a feeling someone is going to be great

Even The Chiefs could not have foreseen what Mahomes is doing, just as Da Bears front office :ROFLMAO: then who imagined R Wilson whould have done the stuff he has when Seattle took him 5picks after A PUNTER and then there is Brady

Truth is none of us "Know" but the beauty of this game we all "THINK" we know so lets wait and see

IMO Borrow will be much better that Herbert based on what he was achieving on a poor team with the worst O Line in the NFL, this kid could be amazing if given a supporting cast but watching this draft class of QB's will be fun
 
Honestly, I believe in Lawrence.

I think a guy like him would be the perfect heir to Drew Brees in our west-coast system based on intermediate passes in Payton's system.

I love his footwork.

I really can't say enough about his feet and mid-range passing. It's his deep accuracy that concerns me because he doesn't seem to hit on deep plays as well as Jones and Wilson.


If you get him players who are good at YAC (a TE like Kelce or wr like AB) I think he can have a tremendous Career but I don't think he translate into a vertical passing system like most of the rest of these qbs.

It's not just a matter of arm-strength either, but of accuracy, ball-placement and recognition of deep concepts.

That's just the issue.

I don't think that his football IQ exceeds that of either Jones or Wilson as a pure passer.


Would Lawrence eventually justify the #1 pick surround by the right talent? Absolutely.

Is he the best option at #1 for the Jaguars football-wise in my opinion .

Far and away no.
Arm strength is for those chest pumping mugs who like to get drunk and shout about it

Montana / Drew / Marino / Warner Manning etc etc didn't have cannons but were incredible QB's because they were masters of their craft

Jamarcus Russell / Ryan Leaf / J Cutler...the list of Howitzer armed nut jugglers goes on and on who couldn't pass water never mind a football
 
Not to start any speculation, but “if” (big if) we considered trading Michael Thomas in the offseason, this would seem to be the top candidate. History with Meyer, they have an extra 1st round pick, lots of cap space. Makes sense
 
Not to start any speculation, but “if” (big if) we considered trading Michael Thomas in the offseason, this would seem to be the top candidate. History with Meyer, they have an extra 1st round pick, lots of cap space. Makes sense
Thomas put out a cryptic this is now "very interesting" message yesterday. I wouldn't be against it happening.
 
Arm strength is for those chest pumping mugs who like to get drunk and shout about it

Montana / Drew / Marino / Warner Manning etc etc didn't have cannons but were incredible QB's because they were masters of their craft

Jamarcus Russell / Ryan Leaf / J Cutler...the list of Howitzer armed nut jugglers goes on and on who couldn't pass water never mind a football


I agree except I remember Marino and Manning being strong as %@$#.

Being a good qb doesn't necessarily have to entail having a strong arm but it also doesn't have to be mutually exclusive either.

Plenty of the top QBs in the league have a cannon for an arm but ironically D.B. is the all time leading passer and Deshaun Watson has the 2nd highest yards per attempt for all active qbs behind only Patrick Mahomes.

Watson also has the weakest arm (49 mph ball Velocity) of all starting qbs in the NFL.

I think that good QBs with a strong arm typically have a stark advantage over good QBs without one, but of course, that isn't always the case.
 
It's all about opinions I guess and sometimes you get a a feeling someone is going to be great

Even The Chiefs could not have foreseen what Mahomes is doing, just as Da Bears front office :ROFLMAO: then who imagined R Wilson whould have done the stuff he has when Seattle took him 5picks after A PUNTER and then there is Brady

Truth is none of us "Know" but the beauty of this game we all "THINK" we know so lets wait and see

IMO Borrow will be much better that Herbert based on what he was achieving on a poor team with the worst O Line in the NFL, this kid could be amazing if given a supporting cast but watching this draft class of QB's will be fun


Yep.
All opinions and this is just my :tpenny:

I remember comparing Mahomes to Jay Cutler here when he came out in the draft and he does remind me of Cutler athletically but just surrounded by a better supporting cast and organization. He even went at a Similar spot in the draft.

I also remember doubting Russell Wilson greatly as he struggled in the Senior Bowl as a traditional passer but Changing my mind early in the preseason of 2012 when it became apparent how good he was when Carroll moved him around and utilized his feet to beat out Matt Flynn for the starting job.

Who knows what will happen.

These are just my unqualified early impressions, man.

I'm not a scout.
 
Could work.

I'm always skeptical when a team hires a coach before a GM. The NFL is a totally different thing than college, and Meyer is being given a ton of power to start. Sometimes that's not a good thing.
 
Thomas would be a nice fit for the Jags.

BTW...you can’t customize a Jags jersey with the name Lawrence on NFL shop. You can customize the name of any other draft prospect though.
 
This should be interesting as most colleges coaches I’ve seen kick it a try in the pros never pan out. I guess all that yelling to teenagers doesn’t work in the nfl lol
 

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