Us vs. Them (1 Viewer)

Our local holiday food:

<img src="https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/7778991/476652551.jpg", width="800 or less">


Their local holiday food (they eat pickled herring at Christmas):

273af0feef24064a2af7684cf9ddca58.jpg

Both are disgusting.
 
Most recent owner court proceedings

Us--Mr. Benson prevails in public battle with Rita et all over ownership of team.

Them--On August 6, 2013, Zygi Wilf, along with his brother, Mark Wilf, and cousin, were found liable by a New Jersey court for breaking civil state racketeering laws and keeping separate accounting books to fleece former business partners of shared revenue. The presiding judge noted that Wilf had used organized crime-like tactics to commit fraud against his business partners.[19] In September the judge awarded the two business partner plaintiffs Ada Reichmann and Josef Halpern $84.5 million in compensatory damages, punitive damages and interest that the Wilfs must pay.[20]
 
I often wonder what Ragnar Lothbok, Rollo, Ivan the Boneless, Bjorn Ironside, Eric the Red, Leif Ericson, the innumerable Viking raiders, explorers, conquerors, kings, jarls, who pillaged churches, monasteries, towns, cities all over continental Europe, Mediterranean, North Africa, England(historically, the Norse raiders first and favorite place to raid), Scotland, Ireland, Iceland, Greenland, ANddd North America.

I often wonder what they think of all this.

We must also keep in mind if truly our words and actions, whether sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek, or based on intelligent observations will permit some of us from entering Valhalla.
 
I often wonder what Ragnar Lothbok, Rollo, Ivan the Boneless, Bjorn Ironside, Eric the Red, Leif Ericson, the innumerable Viking raiders, explorers, conquerors, kings, jarls, who pillaged churches, monasteries, towns, cities all over continental Europe, Mediterranean, North Africa, England(historically, the Norse raiders first and favorite place to raid), Scotland, Ireland, Iceland, Greenland, ANddd North America.

I often wonder what they think of all this.

We must also keep in mind if truly our words and actions, whether sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek, or based on intelligent observations will permit some of us from entering Valhalla.

Saints man, I read that historians now believe that the "boneless" in Ivar the Boneless' name probably symbolized his inability to, well, "get it up", as opposed to the prior commonly held belief that he was a cripple. What are your thoughts?

Does this increase or decrease his legendary status as one of history's great Norsemen? Was his status inflated because of the false belief that he was a cripple? Perhaps he was the world's most famous LGBTQ viking instead?
 
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Historians aren't sure if Ivar's famous moniker "The Boneless" was due to his infertility or that instead he suffered from a form of medieval gigantism, meaning his body never stopped growing and that by the time he died on military campaign in Ireland outside modern-day Belfast, he was a barely movable giant. I've heard conflicting stories from numerous old Norse sagas that question whether Ivar really existed, sexual impotence was severely frowned upon as was homosexuality, so it's doubtful Ivar could've successfully maintained this mesmerizing, powerful ethos as a Viking leader, raider, and conqueror if his hyper-masculinity was questioned by his men. And pre-Christian Old Norse Scandinavia was a VERY, hyper-masculine society.

One thing the Vikings TV series does get right historically, Loose is that Harold Finehair was the first king of medieval Norway, albeit through a combination of sly, cutthroat diplomacy and military conquest of other lesser Norwegian Viking kings, and Jarls. Peter Franzen does a very good, convincing job as Harold Finehair, I could see the real historical Finehair being a little like that dupliticious, conniving bastage who can turn the most desperate, dire of situations somehow into his advantage.

He's very clever, and he's equally adept at playing the long game, far better than Ragnar or Bjorn, with the exception of Ivar the Boneless.

BTW, the Kievan Rus tribe were ethnically Norse Scandinavian roots, but so we're the Normans but unlike them, the Rus hadn't converted to Christianity or adopted old Byzantine Eastern Orthodox Rites by the late 9th/early 10th centuries, most Rus still of practiced Slavic paganism or totemism, some rituals were similar to Viking Uppsala rituals where human sacrifices were performed every 9 years. Kievan Rus and afterwards most of European Russia itself weren't Chrisfianized until late 10th century in 988 with a marriage between the sister of Byzantine emperor Basil II and Vladimir of Kiev, an event many Russian historians still revere and mark as the beginning of Russia. Basil II got a Swedish Viking bodyguard called the Varangian Guard, a very well-defined, well-equipped, well-paid group of mercenaries who lasted almost until the very fall of Constantinople in 1453. The Old Norse called Constantinople Mikklagard, "The Great City", a city whose riches, power, opulence, history, and glory seemed almost unfathomable to believe for Viking raiders in Scandinavia.

Norwegian city of Oslo was founded by later 11th century Viking explorer, adventurer, and king Harald Hardrada.

It's hard to believe now, but British Isles from a cultural and political standpoint until 1066 had far more in common and had closer ties to Scandinavia then Continental Europe, France. England didn't see itself as overtly connected or involved in medieval European power politics or affairs much since the withdrawal of Roman troops in 410 C.E. and arrival of Germanic Anglo-Saxon tribes. If Norman Conquest hadn't occurred in 1066, it's conceivable England would politically, socially resemble Iceland or Norway in 2020. Normans changed so much of previous Anglo--Saxon aristocracy, political leadership, tax structures, forms of local, regional, and national governments. William the Conqueror and later Norman successors introduced the concept of building stone castles to England and French, not English became the lingua franca in business, government, education, religious sermons among English royalty and feudal lords until the early 15th century.
 
I always cringe when the Us vs.Them feature begins. Something about living in a glass house. Each time it begins, I think what if the other city wanted to do its own Us vs Them feature on us. It would not pretty.
 
I always cringe when the Us vs.Them feature begins. Something about living in a glass house. Each time it begins, I think what if the other city wanted to do its own Us vs Them feature on us. It would not pretty.
What could somebody say of us we haven’t said ourselves?
Heck we make giant parades out if our screwups
 
Historians aren't sure if Ivar's famous moniker "The Boneless" was due to his infertility or that instead he suffered from a form of medieval gigantism, meaning his body never stopped growing and that by the time he died on military campaign in Ireland outside modern-day Belfast, he was a barely movable giant. I've heard conflicting stories from numerous old Norse sagas that question whether Ivar really existed, sexual impotence was severely frowned upon as was homosexuality, so it's doubtful Ivar could've successfully maintained this mesmerizing, powerful ethos as a Viking leader, raider, and conqueror if his hyper-masculinity was questioned by his men. And pre-Christian Old Norse Scandinavia was a VERY, hyper-masculine society.

One thing the Vikings TV series does get right historically, Loose is that Harold Finehair was the first king of medieval Norway, albeit through a combination of sly, cutthroat diplomacy and military conquest of other lesser Norwegian Viking kings, and Jarls. Peter Franzen does a very good, convincing job as Harold Finehair, I could see the real historical Finehair being a little like that dupliticious, conniving bastage who can turn the most desperate, dire of situations somehow into his advantage.

He's very clever, and he's equally adept at playing the long game, far better than Ragnar or Bjorn, with the exception of Ivar the Boneless.

BTW, the Kievan Rus tribe were ethnically Norse Scandinavian roots, but so we're the Normans but unlike them, the Rus hadn't converted to Christianity or adopted old Byzantine Eastern Orthodox Rites by the late 9th/early 10th centuries, most Rus still of practiced Slavic paganism or totemism, some rituals were similar to Viking Uppsala rituals where human sacrifices were performed every 9 years. Kievan Rus and afterwards most of European Russia itself weren't Chrisfianized until late 10th century in 988 with a marriage between the sister of Byzantine emperor Basil II and Vladimir of Kiev, an event many Russian historians still revere and mark as the beginning of Russia. Basil II got a Swedish Viking bodyguard called the Varangian Guard, a very well-defined, well-equipped, well-paid group of mercenaries who lasted almost until the very fall of Constantinople in 1453. The Old Norse called Constantinople Mikklagard, "The Great City", a city whose riches, power, opulence, history, and glory seemed almost unfathomable to believe for Viking raiders in Scandinavia.

Norwegian city of Oslo was founded by later 11th century Viking explorer, adventurer, and king Harald Hardrada.

It's hard to believe now, but British Isles from a cultural and political standpoint until 1066 had far more in common and had closer ties to Scandinavia then Continental Europe, France. England didn't see itself as overtly connected or involved in medieval European power politics or affairs much since the withdrawal of Roman troops in 410 C.E. and arrival of Germanic Anglo-Saxon tribes. If Norman Conquest hadn't occurred in 1066, it's conceivable England would politically, socially resemble Iceland or Norway in 2020. Normans changed so much of previous Anglo--Saxon aristocracy, political leadership, tax structures, forms of local, regional, and national governments. William the Conqueror and later Norman successors introduced the concept of building stone castles to England and French, not English became the lingua franca in business, government, education, religious sermons among English royalty and feudal lords until the early 15th century.

This is really interesting stuff. Thanks for posting.

Switching back to football, what are your thoughts on the Vikings team name? Why is there such outrage about the name "Redskins", but the Minnesota team can name themselves after a society that raped and pillaged and killed for a living? Do you think that should be looked into, or are we living in a PC world run amok?
 
Us vs Them in the stadium got a bit lame toward the end of the season in the dome. Several of these are better, especially the fish one!
 
Loose, It depends on the specific circumstances, context in which a city, state, or region's name sports team gets chosen. In the case of the Vikings, the then-new expansion franchise team in Minnesota and it's first owner, Max Winter, decided to name their new team, the Vikings, in honor of the large Scandinavian-American immigrant communities in Upper Midwest. As you and others on SR may or may not know, the Upper Midwestern states of Minnesota, the Dakota's, Michigan, parts of Iowa, Illinois have had large Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, even Icelandic and Finnish communities living there since 1870s. Not just Upper Midwest, either, large parts of Lower Manitoba, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada received large Scandinavian immigrants during their westward expansion phase, too.

Also, beginning around mid-19th century, some elite, highly educated intellectuals, artists, composers like Wagner, ethnic nationalists in UK and Germany began extensive, sort of revisionist "Viking revival" where social Darwinists, influential leading politicians tried to link old Norse concepts of honor, loyalty, and collective sense of what would be later termed the volkstaat(people's state) or much later the Nazi's volksgemeineshaat(people's ethnic community), these highly racial, exclusionary societal concepts had their origins inn the 19th century and many of their early proponents tried to use the old Norse Vikings as the historical model of a Aryan-only, white, Nordic-Germanic racially superior nation that would attack, conquer, and displace untermenches, racially-inferior Slavic peoples in Eastern Europe and Russian Baltic states. Many of these pan-German, or GrossDeutschland proponents, or pan-Scandinavian, had a very caustic, or negative view towards Christianity or it's long-term existence in Germany. Many hated Christianity because they argued it was forced on them by medieval conquerors like Charlemagne, who wiped and destroyed centuries-old sacred pagan Germanic Saxon groves and altars in late 8th century. They argued that original Latin-influenced Catholicism had to loosened its rules or change it's liturgies to make it more appealing to warlike, aggressive Germanic tribes like Saxons, Lombards, Visigoths, Vandals, Goths, even the Vikings-many of the very same tribes who centuries earlier had finally overrun and sacked Rome in 411 CE. Historians have even called this period the Germanication of Medieval Christianity.

Some pan-German thinkers and groups began to depict Christ as appearing more and more like some medieval, Nordic-Germanic conquering messiah, removing great deal of his pacifist and non-confrontational themes and messages in his sermons recorded in the Gospels. A few even went further, arguing that Jesus Christ wasn't even Jewish, but instead a high-ranking German-born Roman centurion stationed in 1st century C.E. Galilee who eventually came to criticize the hypocritical teachings and moral/ethical uselessness of leading Jewish religious clerics, the Sanhedrin, who were the de facto religious authorities, in some respects they more powerful than the secular, Herodian puppet kings who the Romans put in charge to rule Judea for them, and aside from Herod the Great, didn't do a very effective job governing overall.
 

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