USA Today article of analysis of Saints penalty disparity (1 Viewer)

gtaz21

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Yeah, here it goes ... I TOLD YOU SO.

This article is exactly what stat I was saying I wanted to see. What is the comparison between Saints opponents' number of penalties when they play the Saints vs their number of penalties when they don't play the Saints. Also, what kind of impact are those penalties having in the games? In this article, a sportswriter has done just what I asked for. He went to an analytics company and got them to crunch the numbers. Verdict? The disparity of Saints penalties vs their opponents is the largest its been in their opponents favor since they started keep track of the data 20 years ago. What else? Guess who the least penalized team is in the NFL? Yep, that's right ... whoever is playing the Saints that week. Which is what I thought. It doesn't matter whether you're one of the most penalized teams in the NFL or one of the least penalized teams in the NFL. If you're playing the Saints, you will be the least penalized team in the NFL for a week. That is proof-positive that the NFL is shafting the Saints week-in-and-week-out.

Also, Saints opponents get the most first downs via penalty than the opponents of any other team in the NFL. That answers the question of what kind of impact are the penalties having on the game. There can be no bigger impact than repeatedly extending drives for teams.

The only question remaining to be answered is, WHY? It could be revenge for introducing the PI challenge to the game. It could be that the NFL doesn't want the Saints in the Super Bowl. It could go way back to Bountygate. Or, it could be all of the above. I don't care. I just think it sucks.
 

NeverGiveUP2

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You make the same mistake you accuse others of making
-small sample size ergo outlier -
There’s not enough data to prove outlier, so you’re making an assumption just like you wag your finger at others for doing
I’m going to repeat what I said in another thread. Sample size applies only to randomness. Like flipping a coin 10 times and getting 10 heads. Human bias does not apply to randomness. It’s called a pattern
 

NeverGiveUP2

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You only need go back to game 1 against the Texans. The 10 second run off was not a bang bang play. It went to NY for review. No pressure of the moment. Sitting in an air conditioned office. The top rules guy. The expert. Incorrectly applies the rule that almost cost us the game. There is bias here
 

guidomerkinsrules

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I’m going to repeat what I said in another thread. Sample size applies only to randomness. Like flipping a coin 10 times and getting 10 heads. Human bias does not apply to randomness. It’s called a pattern
mmm
I’ll push back on this a little bit (even though we are kinda in agreement))
If you have a free throw shooter who’s typically 90%, you might have a run of, say, 10 free throws where the miss 5 - thus the data of 10 shots would show a 50% shooter
But that doesn’t seem to be what we have here
Many variables showing a very similar pattern
 

NeverGiveUP2

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I’ll push back on this a little bit (even though we are kinda in agreement))
If you have a free throw shooter who’s typically 90%, you might have a run of, say, 10 free throws where the miss 5 - thus the data of 10 shots would show a 50% shooter
But that doesn’t seem to be what we have here
Many variables showing a very similar pattern
That’s athletic ability not bias
 

Pensacola

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I haven't read all 100+ posts here, but has anyone forwarded these articles (Twitter, Instagram, etc) to national sports writers like Peter King, or talk shows like Pro Football Talk, First things First ???\\

I can't imagine getting any national ground swell on this topic but it sure needs to be better know outside of SSF.
 
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I haven't read all 100+ posts here, but has anyone forwarded these articles (Twitter, Instagram, etc) to national sports writers like Peter King, or talk shows like Pro Football Talk, First things First ???\\

I can't imagine getting any national ground swell on this topic but it sure needs to be better know outside of SSF.
It's USA Today. Peter King is aware of it, and if he's not picking it up, then it's a conscious decision.
 

J.T.

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I have a scenario for you: Let's say we are playing the team X, we have had some really bad calls throughout the game. Then in the 3rd quarter a blatant pass interference is not called against team X, even more blatant than last years blown Rams no call. Like to the point of it being so blatant that the receiver is cold cocked two seconds before the ball gets to the receiver. SP challenges, and the no call stands. Do you as a coach take your players off the field at that point? I think it may have to be done by some team, in some instance in the future. The scenario might be different with a team that has already been eliminated from the playoffs. I'm just venting my frustrations with no accountability regarding the officiating situation.
I said this a while back, it is to the point where you just walk off, forfeit the game. The NFL would suspend you for life, but the point would have been made. Maybe the NEXT Commissioner would reinstate you after they found the 50,000 pages of evidence regarding the conspiracy of the NFL and their Refs to screw the Saints.

If it happens during the playoffs, where they have basically stolen the game from you and there are two minutes on the clock...you just walk off.
 

J.T.

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I haven't read all 100+ posts here, but has anyone forwarded these articles (Twitter, Instagram, etc) to national sports writers like Peter King, or talk shows like Pro Football Talk, First things First ???\\

I can't imagine getting any national ground swell on this topic but it sure needs to be better know outside of SSF.
YES, I sent it to Florio this morning. I have corresponded with him a few times via email (yes, he emailed me back an actual response) starting in 2005 after Katrina. This was before he became super famous, so he might actually open my email. I sent him things about an expanded schedule idea (17 games, one neutral site, possibly International, two BYE weeks) that I thought up over a year ago, then he posted an article along these lines afterward, so he does read my emails.

I just sent the Girod Street End Zone posts to Florio also. If you see any of this info on PFT, it is probably because Florio read my emails.
 
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Infoman

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So what happened to these bias Refs during the 3 game winning stretch we had this year starting with the Jacksonville game... where the team averaged 3 penalties for like 30 yards per game?

Did they forget to screw us? Did they feel sorry for us? Maybe they went on Saints bias vacation?

You guys crack me up.

We need to stop committing dumb penalties during dumb times as a team.... and these concerns will go away... until then... carry on conspiracy theorists. LOL
 
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We need to stop committing dumb penalties during dumb times as a team.... and these concerns will go away... until then... carry on conspiracy theorists. LOL
Dang, bro, you missed the entire point of the article. I'm guessing you didn't read it. It's not (only) about OUR penalties. It's about the dropoff of penalties called on all of our opponents when, and only when, they face us.

Now Girod Street endzone does do an in-depth look at the "discretionary" calls against us like holding and hands to the face and whatnot, and there's a huge uptick of those vs. our opponents as well.

I mean if you don't like numbers and analytics and statistics, that's cool. But for people who do, this is fascinating. No one knows WHY and these articles don't answer that question. Only the 'what'. And the 'what' is definitely there. And it's absolutely crazy.
 

Loco Hornet Fan

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So what happened to these bias Refs during the 3 game winning stretch we had this year starting with the Jacksonville game... where the team averaged 3 penalties for like 30 yards per game?

Did they forget to screw us? Did they feel sorry for us? Maybe they went on Saints bias vacation?

You guys crack me up.

We need to stop committing dumb penalties during dumb times as a team.... and these concerns will go away... until then... carry on conspiracy theorists. LOL
Why does it have to be a grand conspiracy to “screw” us every single game? Just because the eye and stat tests may fall short of that doesn’t mean that there isn’t a an issue with inconsistent officiating in the NFL, which the Saints happen to suffer the most from.

Even these 3 games you use as the basis of your rebuttal don’t necessarily disprove anything. Sure, the Saints didn’t get called for a million penalties, but the Cardinals, Jaguars, and Bears (who rank 6th, 1st, 15th in penalties) all got called for (by far) season lows I penalties when they played against us.

How few penalties our opponents get is the biggest point people are making anyway.
 
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Infoman

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See my other posts... I read it... I live in the analytics and statistics universe daily... they can literally be made to prove whatever you are looking to prove if you have a theory in your mind made up (and any supporting data)... and you go looking for the specific data needed to derive the analytics and statistics to support it.... and need to sync up with your conclusion.

It's good brain fodder... not much more.

The fact of the matter is... our team has the capability to stop killing themselves with penalties.... Sean said as much today.... It has been proven in the 3 game stretch I mentioned earlier this year... they just need to be more disciplined.... because these penalties can be the difference between barely winning games, and being dominant.

Dallas has more penality yards than we do... Are the Refs bias against Dallas? LOL

There is a bias because it's perceived, we are committing penalties at a silly rate, and people are looking for a reason outside of "it's our own damn fault".

EDIT: READ ALL MY POSTS... There is an issue with officiating in the NFL in regards to consistency and accuracy... It is not just a problem for the Saints... It's League wide.
 
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SaintJ

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It's USA Today. Peter King is aware of it, and if he's not picking it up, then it's a conscious decision.
Maybe. There's an assumption there that I am not sure is absolutely supportable.
 

SaintJ

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Sean said as much today.... It has been proven in the 3 game stretch I mentioned earlier this year... they just need to be more disciplined.... because these penalties can be the difference between barely winning games, and being dominant.
What did you expect him to say? "Hey, we gettin' hosed, y'all cut it out?"

There is a bias because it's perceived, we are committing penalties at a silly rate, and people are looking for a reason outside of "it's our own damn fault".
Maybe there is one. It wasn't Tommylee Lewis's fault he didn't catch that pass last year.

So how do you explain the astonishing lack of judgment call penalties against our opponents when we play them? Is THAT just randomness, and luck? So we're really sloppy and really unlucky?

And we're magically 10-2? Heavens, with all that we're either the greatest team ever, or the weirdest.

Hey, you pick. You're the big data guy.
 

SaintJ

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So what happened to these bias Refs during the 3 game winning stretch we had this year starting with the Jacksonville game... where the team averaged 3 penalties for like 30 yards per game?

Did they forget to screw us? Did they feel sorry for us? Maybe they went on Saints bias vacation?

You guys crack me up.

We need to stop committing dumb penalties during dumb times as a team.... and these concerns will go away... until then... carry on conspiracy theorists. LOL
Good chance not every last Marine at Guantanamo knew what a Code Red was, either.
 

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