USA Today article of analysis of Saints penalty disparity (3 Viewers)

gtaz21

Groundskeeper
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
3,674
Reaction score
2,567
Location
Los Angeles
Offline
Sticky Post

Yeah, here it goes ... I TOLD YOU SO.

This article is exactly what stat I was saying I wanted to see. What is the comparison between Saints opponents' number of penalties when they play the Saints vs their number of penalties when they don't play the Saints. Also, what kind of impact are those penalties having in the games? In this article, a sportswriter has done just what I asked for. He went to an analytics company and got them to crunch the numbers. Verdict? The disparity of Saints penalties vs their opponents is the largest its been in their opponents favor since they started keep track of the data 20 years ago. What else? Guess who the least penalized team is in the NFL? Yep, that's right ... whoever is playing the Saints that week. Which is what I thought. It doesn't matter whether you're one of the most penalized teams in the NFL or one of the least penalized teams in the NFL. If you're playing the Saints, you will be the least penalized team in the NFL for a week. That is proof-positive that the NFL is shafting the Saints week-in-and-week-out.

Also, Saints opponents get the most first downs via penalty than the opponents of any other team in the NFL. That answers the question of what kind of impact are the penalties having on the game. There can be no bigger impact than repeatedly extending drives for teams.

The only question remaining to be answered is, WHY? It could be revenge for introducing the PI challenge to the game. It could be that the NFL doesn't want the Saints in the Super Bowl. It could go way back to Bountygate. Or, it could be all of the above. I don't care. I just think it sucks.
 

Infoman

Lawd Have Mercy!
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
13,182
Reaction score
5,817
Age
44
Location
Madisonville, LA
Offline
Choose which is more likely and logical and not "flat-earthy":

1.) The Saints are a super talented / SB level team, that has committed a ton of penalties this year, but have won games despite that - due to that sheer talent... and their opponents (if they want any chance to beat them) must not commit penalties if they want to have any chance at a win, and they know it coming into the game- hence play more disciplined as a product.


2.) The Saints are beyond making this many mistakes. The teams they play must be getting help. The Refs are against us. Let's pull some numbers to support this.

Have a good one guys... LOL
 
Last edited:

dutar76

4th Year Vet
Joined
Oct 29, 2016
Messages
8,532
Reaction score
14,349
Location
Oberlin, LA
Offline
Choose which is more likely and logical and not "flat-earthy":

1.) The Saints are a super talented / SB level team, that has committed a ton of penalties this year, but have won games despite that - due to that sheer talent... and their opponents (if they want any chance to beat them) must not commit penalties if they want any chance to beat them, and they know it coming into the game- hence play more disciplined as a product.


2.) The Saints are beyond making this many mistakes. The teams they play must be getting help. The Refs are against us. Let's pull some numbers top support this.

Have a good one guys... LOL
#2 easily.

Yes, a team can play more disciplined... But I've watched the games. Excluding this last game vs ATL... the calls have all been ticky-tack and I've seen LOTs of uncalled egregious fouls committed by our opponents not get called. Against ATL, I remember telling co-workers that it looks like our guys just said "screw it"... and went out and played ball knowing that the Refs couldn't do us "worse".

Our boys didn't just start playing sloppy 4 weeks ago. If you think they did, then give me ANY believable reason why that would've happened. I have a reason, and it's very believable. We were on the cusp of clinching the NFC South before Thanksgiving, and that's bad for football. You can only get away with that most years in the AFC East.
 

Infoman

Lawd Have Mercy!
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
13,182
Reaction score
5,817
Age
44
Location
Madisonville, LA
Offline
I appreciate the responses guys... for those that answer #2.... do me a favor and let's get that hat size and quantity put in here so we can just make one big order before Christmas.

Thanks,

 

bc

Rookie
Joined
Aug 31, 2003
Messages
118
Reaction score
164
Offline
I appreciate the responses guys... for those that answer #2.... do me a favor and let's get that hat size and quantity put in here so we can just make one big order before Christmas.

Thanks,

You are mighty dismissive to other level headed who dat brethren here. Try having a dissenting point of view without the condescending attitude champ.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
1,138
Reaction score
2,647
Location
The Vieux
Online
I appreciate the responses guys... for those that answer #2.... do me a favor and let's get that hat size and quantity put in here so we can just make one big order before Christmas.

Thanks,
I’m sure your dad was a very fine ref and we’re probably not counting him among these terrible ones the NFL is stocked with today.
 

MJ in Calif

Hall-of-Famer
Joined
Jan 23, 2000
Messages
3,112
Reaction score
1,191
Age
58
Offline
Or does it show that the Saints are their own worst enemy, and generally commit way too many penalties, and their opponents have to play near mistake free football to have a chance to beat them...?

As with most data... you can use it to see what you are looking for... That's why context and substance of the data is way more important than raw numbers.
You need to read the Girod street endzone article about this subject. It breaks it down further and adds context. This disparity is pretty eye opening to say the least. You can believe what you want in that it's still a coincidence but the breakdown in that article convinces me that there is something afoot in the NFL front office and the officials to stick it to the Saints. A let's show them who's boss type of attitude being disseminated down the ranks. That Carolina game was a tipping point for me. When they missed that FG, the officials flag came out way to late and like someone else pointed out, they huddled and thought the better of it because that would have been way to obvious.
 

efil4stnias

one lonely Beastie i be...
VIP Contributor
Joined
Jul 9, 2001
Messages
30,532
Reaction score
28,288
Location
Covington
Online
See my other posts... I read it... I live in the analytics and statistics universe daily... they can literally be made to prove whatever you are looking to prove if you have a theory in your mind made up (and any supporting data)... and you go looking for the specific data needed to derive the analytics and statistics to support it.... and need to sync up with your conclusion.

It's good brain fodder... not much more.

The fact of the matter is... our team has the capability to stop killing themselves with penalties.... Sean said as much today.... It has been proven in the 3 game stretch I mentioned earlier this year... they just need to be more disciplined.... because these penalties can be the difference between barely winning games, and being dominant.

Dallas has more penality yards than we do... Are the Refs bias against Dallas? LOL

There is a bias because it's perceived, we are committing penalties at a silly rate, and people are looking for a reason outside of "it's our own damn fault".

EDIT: READ ALL MY POSTS... There is an issue with officiating in the NFL in regards to consistency and accuracy... It is not just a problem for the Saints... It's League wide.
You dismiss other posters with thinly vieled insults about not understanding analytics, yet refer to 3 out of 12 games as "proof".

What analytics do you actually do where 1/4 of the data is used as proof to discount the other 3/4???

You keep returning to this thread for what exactly.?
 

Loco Hornet Fan

ALL-MADDEN TEAM
Joined
Oct 15, 2003
Messages
2,883
Reaction score
2,888
Age
35
Offline
Choose which is more likely and logical and not "flat-earthy":

1.) The Saints are a super talented / SB level team, that has committed a ton of penalties this year, but have won games despite that - due to that sheer talent... and their opponents (if they want any chance to beat them) must not commit penalties if they want to have any chance at a win, and they know it coming into the game- hence play more disciplined as a product.


2.) The Saints are beyond making this many mistakes. The teams they play must be getting help. The Refs are against us. Let's pull some numbers to support this.

Have a good one guys... LOL
So you are positing that teams who commit a lot of penalties in all of their games (of which we have played several) just magically turn off that switch, become disciplined, and commit the fewest penalties of any team in the league that week, simply because they know they have to play well to beat us, only to revert to committing their standard amount of penalties in the following weeks/games?

And this hasn’t happened once or twice, but seemingly every single week. That seems normal to you?

I think there is a wide gap between calling out these inconsistencies and your condescending “flat earther” labels.
 

Taurus

More than 15K posts served!
VIP Contributor
Joined
Dec 20, 1997
Messages
25,428
Reaction score
14,056
Age
51
Location
Yacolt, WA
Offline
I appreciate the responses guys... for those that answer #2.... do me a favor and let's get that hat size and quantity put in here so we can just make one big order before Christmas.

Thanks,

The way to address your argument is to find out what the opponents of the Whiners, Seahawks, Patriots and Ravens penalty situation looks like.

If it's about discipline and knowing you have to play mistake-free, you'd expect their opponent du jour to have fewer penalties just like ours.
 

CDeuce26

Long-Time Lurker
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
68
Reaction score
129
Location
Mandeville, LA
Offline
I see a lot of people say while they admit that officiating is awful league wide and that missed calls and bad calls are rampant, it is not likely that there is bias against the Saints in particular.

Is it not possible that the state of officiating is awful league wide AND there is bias against the Saints? That the refs are awful and that there is some bias aren’t mutually exclusive.
 

DaveXA

I love the Lord!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
26,298
Reaction score
13,790
Age
48
Location
Vienna, VA via Lafayette
Offline
I think at this point, Saints fans wouldn't believe Goodell if he said water was wet...
I don't think this is true, because we know it's true. We don't distrust Goodell because of anything he says necessarily. We distrust him because of the sham bountygate and ridiculously harsh one year ban of Payton from the team for something nearly every team was doing then. Goodell has been a terrible commissioner by many accounts, but the league doesn't care.

If he says something accurate, then fine. But when it comes to the Saints and Payton, he's never been partial. I'm sick of him treating us like crap. I don't think that will ever change until he's no longer commissioner.
 

DaveXA

I love the Lord!
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Sep 6, 2001
Messages
26,298
Reaction score
13,790
Age
48
Location
Vienna, VA via Lafayette
Offline
I see a lot of people say while they admit that officiating is awful league wide and that missed calls and bad calls are rampant, it is not likely that there is bias against the Saints in particular.

Is it not possible that the state of officiating is awful league wide AND there is bias against the Saints? That the refs are awful and that there is some bias aren’t mutually exclusive.
Indeed. It's obvious to anyone paying attention around the league that the officials have been ridiculously bad this season. But it's also quite clear that when it comes to the Saints and their opponents, the statistics are eye opening to say the very least.
 

CDeuce26

Long-Time Lurker
Joined
May 10, 2007
Messages
68
Reaction score
129
Location
Mandeville, LA
Offline
I don't think this is true, because we know it's true. We don't distrust Goodell because of anything he says necessarily. We distrust him because of the sham bountygate and ridiculously harsh one year ban of Payton from the team for something nearly every team was doing then. Goodell has been a terrible commissioner by many accounts, but the league doesn't care.

If he says something accurate, then fine. But when it comes to the Saints and Payton, he's never been partial. I'm sick of him treating us like crap. I don't think that will ever change until he's no longer commissioner.
The public outcry this year against the officiating has been loud and getting more vocal all across the country. Sadly, I do not see officiating improving until there is a new commissioner. The status quo is perfectly fine with Goodell and this regime.
 

ElGatoNegro

Rookie
Joined
Oct 12, 2017
Messages
225
Reaction score
301
Online
You are wasting your breath, with an individual, that does not see the point of the article to begin with.

Where is there a conspiracy being said? The article and the stats provided are FACTS, not a proven CONSPIRACY! Why are YOU bringing up the conspiracy angle? Who the heck knows, why there is so much of a variance? But it is what it is and it needs to be addressed and fixed.
The OP is obviously trying to suggest some conspiracy. As are you. What exactly needs to be fixed? There is no rule saying all teams need to have equal numbers of penalties called on them. Some teams will have more penalties than others.
 

whosyadaddy

Bleed Black & Gold
Joined
Feb 18, 2004
Messages
2,958
Reaction score
1,742
Age
46
Offline
If you believe after reading that article and stats that every Saints opponent just magically turns into the least penalized team in the league for that particular week and we are the sloppiest regardless of opponent well there are Klingons, Rudolph, the Tooth Fairy, Santa
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)



Headlines

Top Bottom