USMNT - The Berhalter Era (2 Viewers)

[gboudx]

Something I’ve had on my mind and wondering if anyone else has noticed, but McKennie just doesn’t seem like himself since his injury earlier this year. There was a time when he was on par with Pulisic for me as the best on the team. But I’m just not sure now.

It’s not just you. He doesn’t seem to play with the same aggression.

I’m choosing to go off in la-la land and assume they’re kinda dogging it in friendlies since the roster is pretty much set. They’ll “flip the switch” come November is my hope. We all saw what this team was able to do when they were playing for a berth.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Something I’ve had on my mind and wondering if anyone else has noticed, but McKennie just doesn’t seem like himself since his injury earlier this year. There was a time when he was on par with Pulisic for me as the best on the team. But I’m just not sure now.

There were more than a few whisperings about both him and Dest after last match

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

How bout them Pels?

 

[Beast]

And that may be a by product of Serie A type play when you man midfield for Juve. So many other weapons, teams will give you space and time. We don't have that problem. Lol.

If Japan showed anything, it’s that we struggle with the press. Our GK, back line and midfield have to get better dealing with that.

But yeah, McKennie looks less aggressive than he’s been in the past. Maybe it’s a self preservation mode to make sure he makes it to the WC.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

@texasjefe

 

[texasjefe]

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

 

[efil4stnias]

you will single-handedly get us tossed to BTL if @texasjefe sees this.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

you will single-handedly get us tossed to BTL if @texasjefe sees this.

Trying to establish a baseline
(It is a sexy, sexy goal)

 

[efil4stnias]

Pulisic with a goal yesterday, this am Aaronson with a fantastic move that led to goal.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Pulisic with a goal yesterday, this am Aaronson with a fantastic move that led to goal.

3 dudes draped on him he still gets a shot on frame

 

[IceHot]

Something I’ve had on my mind and wondering if anyone else has noticed, but McKennie just doesn’t seem like himself since his injury earlier this year. There was a time when he was on par with Pulisic for me as the best on the team. But I’m just not sure now.

Ive been thinking about this and I engaged in an interesting discussion about this today. I think the issue may be a little complex and more so than I will likely be able to express with my typing skills. But before I criticize too much I want to say I truly believe Berhalter is a great jump for US soccer. He brings us another leap closer to a European/Americas Hybrid that may one day have a dominant place in international soccer.

That being said, today I was speculating if McKennies play in Juventus is having repercussions in his play for the USMNT. Keep in mind, he plays more abroad than with the same USMNT group of players and more importantly in a different system. At Juventus McKennie is getting a huge soccer education with a team that is much more dynamic and complex in it uses of formation. The European style of football is more cerebral and relies on complex strategies. The Americas style is more instinctive and relies more on athleticism. In addition, at Juventus they use an array of different formations to breakdown different opponents.

Simply put McKennie may be thinking more and surging less.

I think a large part of the USMNT problem has to do with the way we play this weird version of a 4-3-3. Tactically I see two major areas where we get exposed in the way we implement this simplistic/bereft version of the 4-3-3...

I liked that we build from the backfield but our midfield play is tactically poor (technically strong, but tactically poor) against the press because we dont play 3 flat midfielders. Instead we play more of a 1 DM, 1B2B, and 1 AM. Because of this role system we end up being even-numbered instead of dominant-numbered in the build up. Essentially we are playing a back 7 but only engaging 5+1 (when ball-side winger drops down to play off the touchline) on the build up. We need to engage our B2B and AM more in the build-up or stop playing a 4-3-3. Watch the film and see how often Musah and McKennie alleviate pressure during the buildup. The press should not be able to threaten 7 Triangles which is what our 4-3-back should be able to offer in the buildup but doesnt. Instead we use 1 DM to pivot as the triangle apex across two central triangles. A fine concept for CONCACAF soccer but struggles for rhythm against the press.

The second area that boggles my mind is why we try to play a false 9 out of our 4-3-3 formation. Im not an MLS guy but I have watched some stuff on Ferreira and I dont see his MLS game translating at all to the USMNT tactics. It seems we actually have an instinctive player who should be playing aggressive and free yet we are asking him to play cerebral and passive. Im a fan of off-ball cerebral play from the striker. But it should be physical and geometric cerebral off-ball play. He should be stretching lines, widening gaps, drawing attention, positioning for finishes. Not dropping of into an AM role, failing to capitalize on space, and leaving us devoid of a central force scoring threat. I just dont understand why that would be the ask in this 4-3-3.

The other thing I think we need to expand on to create a dominant hybrid is change the way we approach our attacks. We are still using the Americas attack structure of attack from the touchline-in. We play balls over the top into the corner to keep the defense honest which is good and we have some strong wing play from the 4-3. But I think we need to adapt a little more of the European attack strategy to change our outside-in approach to an approach that attacks from space-to-weakness.

I could be wrong but thats just my two cents.

 

[efil4stnias]

Ive been thinking about this and I engaged in an interesting discussion about this today. I think the issue may be a little complex and more so than I will likely be able to express with my typing skills. But before I criticize too much I want to say I truly believe Berhalter is a great jump for US soccer. He brings us another leap closer to a European/Americas Hybrid that may one day have a dominant place in international soccer.

That being said, today I was speculating if McKennies play in Juventus is having repercussions in his play for the USMNT. Keep in mind, he plays more abroad than with the same USMNT group of players and more importantly in a different system. At Juventus McKennie is getting a huge soccer education with a team that is much more dynamic and complex in it uses of formation. The European style of football is more cerebral and relies on complex strategies. The Americas style is more instinctive and relies more on athleticism. In addition, at Juventus they use an array of different formations to breakdown different opponents.

Simply put McKennie may be thinking more and surging less.

I think a large part of the USMNT problem has to do with the way we play this weird version of a 4-3-3. Tactically I see two major areas where we get exposed in the way we implement this simplistic/bereft version of the 4-3-3...

I liked that we build from the backfield but our midfield play is tactically poor (technically strong, but tactically poor) against the press because we dont play 3 flat midfielders. Instead we play more of a 1 DM, 1B2B, and 1 AM. Because of this role system we end up being even-numbered instead of dominant-numbered in the build up. Essentially we are playing a back 7 but only engaging 5+1 (when ball-side winger drops down to play off the touchline) on the build up. We need to engage our B2B and AM more in the build-up or stop playing a 4-3-3. Watch the film and see how often Musah and McKennie alleviate pressure during the buildup. The press should not be able to threaten 7 Triangles which is what our 4-3-back should be able to offer in the buildup but doesnt. Instead we use 1 DM to pivot as the triangle apex across two central triangles. A fine concept for CONCACAF soccer but struggles for rhythm against the press.

The second area that boggles my mind is why we try to play a false 9 out of our 4-3-3 formation. Im not an MLS guy but I have watched some stuff on Ferreira and I dont see his MLS game translating at all to the USMNT tactics. It seems we actually have an instinctive player who should be playing aggressive and free yet we are asking him to play cerebral and passive. Im a fan of off-ball cerebral play from the striker. But it should be physical and geometric cerebral off-ball play. He should be stretching lines, widening gaps, drawing attention, positioning for finishes. Not dropping of into an AM role, failing to capitalize on space, and leaving us devoid of a central force scoring threat. I just dont understand why that would be the ask in this 4-3-3.

The other thing I think we need to expand on to create a dominant hybrid is change the way we approach our attacks. We are still using the Americas attack structure of attack from the touchline-in. We play balls over the top into the corner to keep the defense honest which is good and we have some strong wing play from the 4-3. But I think we need to adapt a little more of the European attack strategy to change our outside-in approach to an approach that attacks from space-to-weakness.

I could be wrong but thats just my two cents.

Uh -greed.

I have long held that US Soccer, with all the "want" for players to play in top leagues across Europe, the downside was always "euro tactics/shape" style vs US style.

I came up in late 80s early 90s when Roy Lassitter was heralded ....for his speed. US soccer was knock forward and let the speed run on to the ball.

While we have come a long way, we still haven't fully integrated a style all our own. Then you have guys in Serie A, LA Liga, Bundesliga, Ligue Un and EPL, all of which have own styles coupled with coaches who bring their own style.

It can get quite jumbled when you come from Juve, playing one style, to USMNT and asked to play differently. Doesn't bode well for cohesion. Knowing who is where without hesitation or having to look up.

At least when WC is in June, most have left clubs for over a month, get into camp and have some time to mesh. I have no idea how this will work, if it will work.

My biggest complaint is possession. Possession, while nice n all, without purpose, is garbage. Further, I'd love to see our players, when playing bunker type teams, attack the first defender. Beat him, and their shape has to collapse and you are on front foot. Defense on heels.

So yeah I'm totally getting what you say and totally believe that guys like McKinnie, CP and handful others, end up at clubs that have a completely different tactical strategy and shape and its hard to just "switch off" especially when you ate feeling fatigue and running on muscle memory. It's why I think we have been seeing wayward balls and say "where was he going with that?" (Player a going one way, pass up line type crap)

I'll be paying attention to Aaronson and Adams. Coming from Leeds with Jessie Marsh as manager. See if there is a disconnect between them and rest. If there is at times, more confirmation.

 

[Beast]

Ive been thinking about this and I engaged in an interesting discussion about this today. I think the issue may be a little complex and more so than I will likely be able to express with my typing skills. But before I criticize too much I want to say I truly believe Berhalter is a great jump for US soccer. He brings us another leap closer to a European/Americas Hybrid that may one day have a dominant place in international soccer.

That being said, today I was speculating if McKennies play in Juventus is having repercussions in his play for the USMNT. Keep in mind, he plays more abroad than with the same USMNT group of players and more importantly in a different system. At Juventus McKennie is getting a huge soccer education with a team that is much more dynamic and complex in it uses of formation. The European style of football is more cerebral and relies on complex strategies. The Americas style is more instinctive and relies more on athleticism. In addition, at Juventus they use an array of different formations to breakdown different opponents.

Simply put McKennie may be thinking more and surging less.

I think a large part of the USMNT problem has to do with the way we play this weird version of a 4-3-3. Tactically I see two major areas where we get exposed in the way we implement this simplistic/bereft version of the 4-3-3...

I liked that we build from the backfield but our midfield play is tactically poor (technically strong, but tactically poor) against the press because we dont play 3 flat midfielders. Instead we play more of a 1 DM, 1B2B, and 1 AM. Because of this role system we end up being even-numbered instead of dominant-numbered in the build up. Essentially we are playing a back 7 but only engaging 5+1 (when ball-side winger drops down to play off the touchline) on the build up. We need to engage our B2B and AM more in the build-up or stop playing a 4-3-3. Watch the film and see how often Musah and McKennie alleviate pressure during the buildup. The press should not be able to threaten 7 Triangles which is what our 4-3-back should be able to offer in the buildup but doesnt. Instead we use 1 DM to pivot as the triangle apex across two central triangles. A fine concept for CONCACAF soccer but struggles for rhythm against the press.

The second area that boggles my mind is why we try to play a false 9 out of our 4-3-3 formation. Im not an MLS guy but I have watched some stuff on Ferreira and I dont see his MLS game translating at all to the USMNT tactics. It seems we actually have an instinctive player who should be playing aggressive and free yet we are asking him to play cerebral and passive. Im a fan of off-ball cerebral play from the striker. But it should be physical and geometric cerebral off-ball play. He should be stretching lines, widening gaps, drawing attention, positioning for finishes. Not dropping of into an AM role, failing to capitalize on space, and leaving us devoid of a central force scoring threat. I just dont understand why that would be the ask in this 4-3-3.

The other thing I think we need to expand on to create a dominant hybrid is change the way we approach our attacks. We are still using the Americas attack structure of attack from the touchline-in. We play balls over the top into the corner to keep the defense honest which is good and we have some strong wing play from the 4-3. But I think we need to adapt a little more of the European attack strategy to change our outside-in approach to an approach that attacks from space-to-weakness.

I could be wrong but thats just my two cents.

There was some talk of running a double pivot, and I think we actually did that for one of our games a couple months ago. That would seem to help with alleviating pressure more easily with 2 DMs deep to receive. But then would it be Musah - McKennie - Adams?

Or should we consider a 4-2-3-1? Leeds was running that this weekend against Crystal Palace. But who would be Adams’ counterpart?

 

[sfidc3]

I’m not nearly as optimistic about this team as I was a year ago….my reasons:

1) Playing out of the back is a mistake for this team, our center backs are a weakness, when healthy our outside backs are really good but not good enough to compensate…
2) We have, by far, the biggest collective of offensive talent the USMNT has ever had, and it’s not close. The problem is it’s “talent and potential” at this point, between injuries and stifled development some of these players will fall short of expectation…
3) Because of (partly) injuries and partly Berhalter’s penchant for changing lineups/personnel I think whomever the starters wind up being the chemistry/cohesion will be lacking….

PS: I hope I’m wrong about all of above but my feeling is that if we survive the first group stage that is a success…..