Vaccaro - The SS who can cover (2 Viewers)

[meily]

No such thing as a shutdown safety...but I agree that he is better in coverage than Harper and has shown the same ability to make plays inside the box like Harper...I honetly feel like we got the same player with better cover skills..Payton values Harper and what he brings to the defense and you can tell by the fact we went out and got a guy who plays the same way but has the athletic ability like up with a tightend who is spread out wide.

 

[whodatdb]

I'd compare him to Harper in his prime.- and thats a compliment because harper was real good about 4-5 years ago.

Vaccaro is primarily a man coverage safety (although he can play in the box and play zone well too).

Harper is an in the box safety.

They are very different types of safeties.

Although Harper was a top in the box type safety, he can't efficiently cover zone or man and that's why some people don't like him and complain about his coverage.

Kenny's ball skills are also better than Harper; he was recruited as a WR before.

 

[Saint_Ward]

NFL offenses have learned that the money is made on the Nickle Down. And that down isn't just 3rd down now. They're playing a lot more 3 WR sets, or splitting the TE as a WR.

Due to this, NFL Defenses have been struggling to figure out what to do on that Nickle down.

At first, since most were using 3 WR sets, the answer was simple. A defense needed a better 3rd CB and take a LB out of the mix.

Then offenses started using highly athletic TE's who were too big for that 3rd CB and too fast for most LB's. So, then you started to see the Safety get more involved. The problem is most SS's were not trained to do a lot of man coverage, they were support coverage.

So, now that more hightly athletic TE's are coming out of college, there needs to be a defensive answer. What you are seeing in the college defense are two things. Outside "rush" LB's are much more athletic and not the 1 trick pony's they were. As you've seen this draft, guys like Jordan and Mingo are taller and skinnier. They're quicker to run with TE's, but not as able to hold the point of attack. Most college LB's now run around guys, not through them. So, that's one way to combat the TE.. a more athletic LB. The other option has been to develop more "tweener" S/CB's. i.e. a Safety with better man to man skills. Enter guys like Viccaro. He's a bit smaller than a traditional SS, but he's not CB small. But the guy can do man to man coverage. Honestly, as SP said, the question is how much traditional Safety can he play? They had to dig for that.

So, as I've been watching the draft, when teams are taking certain defenders, you can see it as their answer to the TE problem, if they face it. We took a better coverage Safety, because we deal with the Read option and a great TE in Tony G twice a year. Also, we're facing the Pats with Gronk and Hernandez, and other's. So, we don't want to get burned on the Nickel down.

The Dolphins moved up to get Dion Jordan (we all though OT), but it's likely their way of answering the problem of facing the Pat's twice a year (and they play us too). I haven't heard yet, but I'd venture a guess that it's more likley Jordan plays SOLB in Miami's 4-3 so that he can rush and cover the TE. If they put him at DE, then I have no idea why they did this move.

I'm actually excited about this, because right now most teams don't have a great answer for the 3 WR 2RB sets, 2WR, 2TE (one flexed out), or 3WR, TE, RB sets. NFL defenses need to evolve to slow down the passing game.

 

[Saint_Ward]

To add to what I said, I think one big question remains for NFL Defenses. Do you try to field 11-12 guys who can really do it all, or do you sub out and have 14 or so guys who you sub in and out as chess pieces to better match up? If you take the second option, you can be more likely burned when you have a smart QB audible into a play that exposes that personnel grouping.

i.e. blitz team, run stop team, coverage team, TE coverage team, Zone blitz team.

The reality is you need to find those rare athletes who are also intelligent enough to run almost anything, or it becomes too difficult. Teams are trying different things, and it will be interesting to see who sorta figures it out.

 

[State Of Affairs]

To be fair I like the pick, but not because Vaccaro has the best ball skills. His pass defended (7 in 2012) stats don't scream shutdown. BUT he brings old school football to the table - As in: "let the guy catch the ball then knock the crap out of him" - wash rinse repeat. By the 4th quarter, the receivers are too distracted by the hit to catch the ball anyway. Plus, hes a special teams monster and he hasn't been injured since high school.

I'd compare him to Harper in his prime.- and thats a compliment because harper was real good about 4-5 years ago.

Look... Some of you guys with looking at stats and saying he is or isn't a ball hawk. Darrell Revis, pretty much considered the gold standard averages 16 passes defended and 3 interceptions per season and that's 16 games as opposed to 12 games.

The point is, many of you guys are expecting 8 interceptions and 20 passes defended..... Even the very best ever don't do that....

The dude is a hard hitting strong safety that covers like a good corner. Will he do that in the pros, probably not but he won't be getting abused like our current strong safety and will actually win some matchups and be able to be a match up that favors us against most tightends.

Lets keep our expectations reasonable and if he does what I said above, he becomes a differance maker for us and a probowl level player... What more could you ask for with the 15th pick???

 

[Saint Droopy]

Good to see folks are still butthurt that we didn't take Jarvis Jones.

 

[State Of Affairs]

Enter guys like Viccaro. He's a bit smaller than a traditional SS, but he's not CB small. But the guy can do man to man coverage

I really liked and agreed with everything you said except this one statement...

He's 218 pounds... That's not small for a SS.... Harper is only 200 lbs...

He's plenty big and physical enough to play "in the box" SS

The dude is a complete safety....

 

[whodatdb]

I really liked and agreed with everything you said except this one statement...

He's 218 pounds... That's not small for a SS.... Harper is only 200 lbs...

He's plenty big and physical enough to play "in the box" SS

The dude is a complete safety....

This.

You can't base how good a safety like him is on INTs.

 

[Bespoke]

I still don't understand why so many feel Vacarro was a questionable pick? Who else would you take there given how the board played out?

Jarvis Jones was the other major choice, and there are concerns with his athletic ability, size to play the run, and there's still that Spinal issue.

Floyd is not a 3-4 fit, No Wide Receiver worth taking at that spot with Austin off the board... all the Tackles were gone. Vaccaro was the best DB at that point, and the staff felt he was the best player overall at 15. Hard to disagree.

 

[St.Ryan]

If he can be like Roman Harper in the box and not get smoked against the pass, then it's an upgrade. What worries me is that Texas sucked and given the culture of this sad defense, I'm not really thinking he's gonna be the one to change the culture of our defense.

 

[bino22_]

Tell me 3 SS in the NFL right now that can man up with TEs and slot WRs better than Kenny.

Maybe Troy but he is getting old.
Eric Berry was good his rookie year but took a step back last year.

All the other ones are SS who are decent in zone and don't man up with TEs or in the box players who are not good against TEs or slot WRs.

How can you ask a question like this when Vaccaro hasn't played an NFL snap yet? He might be great or he could be decent or he could be horrible. Unless you're a psychic, none of us know anything for sure right now.

 

[whodatdb]

How can you ask a question like this when Vaccaro hasn't played an NFL snap yet? He might be great or he could be decent or he could be horrible. Unless you're a psychic, none of us know anything for sure right now.

Kenny covered Austin.

Tell me 3 SS that can cover Tavon Austin who could be a top 5 slot WR in this league.

 

[bino22_]

Kenny covered Austin.

Tell me 3 SS that can cover Tavon Austin who could be a top 5 slot WR in this league.

We'll see how he does against NFL receivers and TE's. Lance Moore and Jimmy Graham are gonna steal this kids lunch money in training camp.

 

[Seapea]

Kenny V will be fine.

 

[CantonLegend]

Kenny covered Austin.

Tell me 3 SS that can cover Tavon Austin who could be a top 5 slot WR in this league.

I feel like this is going to be the fall back argument

The kid clearly has skills in coverage, otherwise he wouldn't be getting mentioned as a possible corner, but fans like to fixate on one thing that defines a kids career. Look at his wider body of work and you'll see why he was picked so high