Venezuela election controversy discussion (1 Viewer)

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El Caliente

El Caliente

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He's talking about San Francisco, Venezuela. Not San Francisco, CA. Being the expert on Venezuela you're pretending to be by dismissing his experience actually living in Venezuela, you'd certainly have known this, I'd suppose.
Well I have visited San Francisco,CA but the contrast in the twos socioeconomic states couldn’t be more night and day.
 

insidejob

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Well I have visited San Francisco,CA but the contrast in the twos socioeconomic states couldn’t be more night and day.
The first thing I saw on the ridiculously early CBS News this morning at like 4:30 was riots in the streets in Venezuela protesting the current regime. You know, the unarmed citizens going against police in riot gear with rocks and trash as their only weapons. I'm not sure where all this talk about this being something that the people of Venezuela don't support is coming from. Every single person I've seen who was commenting on this on twitter from Venezuela last week was totally supportive of the regime change and was thankful for the US and other countries stepping up to help them in their fight for a legitimate government representative of the people of Venezuela, not the sham they've been stuck with.
 

Zztop

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Anyone read something about a russian plane landing in VZ and transporting 20 tons of gold back to russia for safe keeping?
If it is valid, I'm not sure what to make of it.
 

simeon58

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He's talking about San Francisco, Venezuela. Not San Francisco, CA. Being the expert on Venezuela you're pretending to be by dismissing his experience actually living in Venezuela, you'd certainly have known this, I'd suppose.
lmao

"expert you're pretending to be"

Just reaching for those straws.
The only person that's claimed anything like that is you. I've posted all of my sources. It doesn't take an expert on anything to understand this stuff, but I guess reading is hard...


It seems the only expert in here is @TulsaSaint , and it looks like he agrees with my interpretation of events for the most part, so there's that..
 

WhoDatPhan78

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I hope we’re not in for a Latin Spring.

I’m sure Russia and Assad et al, would love to give us a tase of our own medicine.

Whatever the reaction to this is going to be, it needs to be multilateral.
 

TulsaSaint

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Well as long as someone agrees with your interpretation that has to count for something.

Any thoughts on the government shutting down the internet and arresting reporters and their chauffeur?
1) And if that someone has a PhD in Latin American History, then it does count for something. No guarantee of infallibility, of course (and plenty of other folks with PhDs undoubtedly disagree with me), but, yeah, not awful company to be in.

2) I think you're mixing up "The US has no business trying to foment regime change," and "Guaidó's constitutional argument is a fraud," with "Maduro is a great president, and I approve of everything he does." The former are arguments I've made; the latter is words you seem to be trying to put in my mouth.
 

superchuck500

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More informed criticism of the pavlovian response we have been seeing from some, including Senator Sanders:

Poorly informed leftists are peddling the notion that the political crisis in Venezuela is the product of yet another heavy-handed U.S. “intervention” in Latin America. Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) compares it to the U.S. support for coups in Chile, Guatemala, Brazil and the Dominican Republic.

For the record, those regime changes happened in 1973, 1954, 1964 and 1965 — and what’s happening in Venezuela half a century later bears no resemblance to them. On the contrary, the movement to oust the disastrous populist regime founded by Hugo Chávez is being driven by Venezuela’s own neighbors, who until very recently had more help from Ottawa than from Washington. What we’re seeing, in an era of U.S. retreat and dysfunction, is a 21st-century model for diplomacy in the Western Hemisphere.

The story of Venezuela since 1998 is partly about the fading of U.S. will to topple toxic regimes. The last time that American troops overthrew a ruler of a Latin American country was 1989, in Panama. Four consecutive U.S. presidents — including, until this month, President Trump — avoided full-scale confrontation with Venezuela, even as the Chavistas destroyed its economy and democratic political system.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/bernie-sanders-is-dead-wrong-about-whats-happening-in-venezuela/2019/01/31/16360e8c-256d-11e9-ad53-824486280311_story.html?utm_term=.7aedd849b5fc
 
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El Caliente

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1) And if that someone has a PhD in Latin American History, then it does count for something. No guarantee of infallibility, of course (and plenty of other folks with PhDs undoubtedly disagree with me), but, yeah, not awful company to be in.

2) I think you're mixing up "The US has no business trying to foment regime change," and "Guaidó's constitutional argument is a fraud," with "Maduro is a great president, and I approve of everything he does." The former are arguments I've made; the latter is words you seem to be trying to put in my mouth.
Im not arguing your PHD. Good on you for having one. They aren’t easy to come by no matter what university you acquire it from. You and I are both aware of how the US has meddled in LA governments, so the game isn’t new to either of us. But what is happening in Venezuela isn’t the same thing as what has happened in Nicaragua and my parents homeland of Cuba.

I’m just saying, the elections were a fraud (from the candidate choices to the actual casting of ballots), and while people say “Maduro has been great for the poor of Venezuela” inflation, policies, and spillage of Venezuelan problems into neighboring countries says otherwise.

The problems in Venezuela are real. The silencing of the media, and the shutting off of the internet are real. The word is out, the gig is up. Maduro’s time is through.

It’s a shame that people want to make this into a “Socialism doesn’t work” argument, because it isn’t that. Socialist countries have come out and said what is happening one Venezuela isn’t on account of failed Socialist policies, it has to do with a government being corrupt.
 
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"In August 2017, 11 Latin American nations and Canada formed the Lima Group to press for the return of democracy in Venezuela." By recognizing a president that wasn't elected.

And dude the article was written by Diehl. There isn't even an attempt to hide the conservative bias in this article. It's cookie-cutter reactionary natsec bulls**t
 

superchuck500

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"In August 2017, 11 Latin American nations and Canada formed the Lima Group to press for the return of democracy in Venezuela." By recognizing a president that wasn't elected.

And dude the article was written by Diehl. There isn't even an attempt to hide the conservative bias in this article. It's cookie-cutter reactionary natsec bulls**t
How about try again. I have no idea what you're saying.
 

TulsaSaint

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Oh, look. A meme devoid of context. How original :hihi:

and couldn't see fraudulent Ibero-American elections when they saw one, I'd ask for my money back :hihi:
You want fraudulent Latin American elections?

1) In Brazil, the 2018 presidential election was won by right-wing congressman Jair Bolsonaro, whose finance minister, Paulo Guedes, attended the University of Chicago and has promised to "Privatize everything," in his own words. While the election results themselves were not tampered with, the fairness of the election was undermined by the use of fake news about his opponent via WhatsApp (stuff like claiming that his opponent had given children in São Paulo daycare bottles with penis-shaped nipples, or that his VP candidate had worn a shirt saying, "Jesus was a transsexual"). More importantly, the candidate who every poll showed easily winning the election, former president Lula, was imprisoned on trumped up corruption charges, with the claim he had been bribed (after leaving office) to do undetermined favors in exchange for renovations to a beach side apartment that were never started, much less completed. The US said nothing, perhaps because US companies stand to gain a lot from the privatization of Brazil's state-run companies, particularly Embraer (being sold to Boeing) and access to offshore oil reserves.

2) In Honduras, the 2017 presidential election was won by Juan Orlando Hernández. There were only two problems. First, he was re-elected after getting the Constitution changed to allow re-election. However, only mentioning the very possibility of that had been used as the pretext for the military-parliamentary coup that overthrew his predecessor Manuel Zelaya in 2009 - a coup tacitly supported by the U.S. State Department under a certain Hillary Clinton. Second, every pre-election poll had shown a significant advantage for his opponent Salvador Nasralla; numerous irregularities made it clear that the results had been tampered with. The United States had nothing to say about either of these problems. Why? Hernández is a right-wing president who maintains cozy, subservient relations with the U.S.

3) In Mexico, the 2006 presidential election was won by Felipe Calderón of the center-right PAN, who defeated his leftist opponent Lopez Obrador by 0.58% - the closest vote in Mexican history. There were innumerable claims of the PAN engaging in vote-buying or fraudulent tactics much like the PRI, who they had finally displaced in 2000. Nonetheless, Calderón was declared the winner without a recount or any real examination of the fraud claims. The US said nothing, probably because Lopez Obrador is a fiery leftist nationalist whose own attitudes toward the US weren't exactly friendly.

So I have a really simple question for you: Why does the US only cry election fraud when the person who wins is a leftist? Could it be that this really has nothing to do with elections or democracy, but rather with putting in someone friendly to us?

Maybe Duke shouldn't ask for their money back after all, although the Department of Education (who funded my dissertation fellowship), the Department of State (who funded my first postdoc), and the Department of Defense (who funded my second postdoc) might not be super excited about giving me money in the future.
 

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