TV WandaVision (3 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

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Taking the general temperature of the comments I'm seeing online, it seems that while there was disappointment over no Mephisto or Strange or things of that nature, most of the outright hostility seems to be revealed for the Quicksilver thing meaning nothing and being used for a pretty low brow joke on top of that. That really is the only inexplicable decision of the series to me. They knew what they were doing with fan expectations with that casting and made a very strange choice in how to resolve it. To put it charitably.

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Yeah, I thought on it's own, the show was great, but I felt like they could have done more to hint what's do come in future movies or shows. I don't know how much was due to Covid and the shifting lineup, or how much was due to intentionally leaving some of those parts open ended. It felt somewhat unfinished in that regard. I'm not mad at it, or even disappointed, but I do feel like they missed an opportunity to do more here.

 

[tenordas]

Speaking to MCU films/AOS crossovers, there were a couple of minor SHIELD agent characters who crossed from AOS into Winter Soldier and back. IIRC, both turned out to be HYDRA. One was a black guy, about 30ish and the other is the one who is in the guy who is in the end credit scene with Baron von Strucker talking about Wanda and Pietro. I'm pretty sure there was a third minor character from AOS who turned up in an MCU film, but I can't place him right now.

While the films barely mentioned AOS (Fury's line in Avengers is all I can remember), Winter Soldier was absolutely integral to AOS and at the time it seemed like the two had been conceived in tandem, especially when Fury showed up on AOS at the end of that first season.

It would be nice if Feige can get over it enough at least to include Coulson in an upcoming film again. I realize that would be somewhat problematic as there would have to explanation for him since as far as most of the characters in the film know, he died at Loki's hands back in Avenger; however, Fury knows the whole truth, so he could be brought back in his current "state", perhaps in the next Captain Marvel film (just seems the most likely candidate to me).

I am pleased he's bringing in Charlie Cox into the films. While not all the NEXTFLIX series were good, all three seasons of Daredevil were outstanding in all aspects (script, casting, direction, fight choreography, etc.), and Charlie Cox was terrific. I don't expect Vincent D'Onofrio to show up, but it would be a nice surprise to see him appear as Kingpin in a future Spiderman film. Matt Murdock being in the new Spiderman certainly opens the door, but I'm not really expecting it.

 

[tenordas]

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Taking the general temperature of the comments I'm seeing online, it seems that while there was disappointment over no Mephisto or Strange or things of that nature, most of the outright hostility seems to be revealed for the Quicksilver thing meaning nothing and being used for a pretty low brow joke on top of that. That really is the only inexplicable decision of the series to me. They knew what they were doing with fan expectations with that casting and made a very strange choice in how to resolve it. To put it charitably.

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I'm fully convinced Mephisto is still the "big bad' of phase 4. I think Feige is actually borrowing from Daredevil Season 1 where Kingpin didn't even appear until about episode 7 or so (whether he's consciously doing so or not). It was a brilliant buildup and I believe the same sort of build up is happening here: small hints as to someone being behind things, but the characters aren't yet aware of it. Slowly, the clues will build up so the characters realize something larger is happening, and then will have to figure out who is doing it. Once they figure out who it is, then Mephisto will appear (just my guess at how they're mapping it). Then again, he may just appear quickly in Dr. Strange 2 and there we are.

Speaking of which, I was disappointed there was no Dr. Strange appearance in the finale, but I'm understanding with the huge time gap until the film, which wasn't supposed to be the case.

As for Quicksilver, I think somebody at Marvel needs to convince the people in charge to eat their egos and go ahead and make it mean something. If it truly ends up being nothing but a barb to fans, they're going to lose a lot of credibility among the actual comics crowd. Considering his track record so far, it's hard to believe Feige will stick to such a colossal blunder as that.

 

[tenordas]

Spoiler Reply

The kids were a construct, just like Vision. When she split Westview open, the kids were being torn apart, just like mindstone vision was. She put them to bed, so that they wouldn't notice or feel 'ending'. Disney isn't about to show kids dying.

So, when she's reading the darkhold at the end, I'm assuming they're gone. but, she wants to find a way to make them real. Or, she's simply just trying to understand her powers and nature better. I wonder if they'll make her go mad, like how Agents of Shield presented the Darkhold. But, I'm not sure the comics ever insinuated that the book drove anyone made, just that evil people used it to further their own dark ambitions.

I really enjoyed the double Vision fight and resolution. That's exactly how Vision would do it. And it was essentially his soul talking to his body. So brilliant.

I really did hope one of the post credits scenes was something about where Vision ended up. My guess is he just wanted to figure himself out.

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That the kids are simply gone as you suggest is a possibility, but I don't think so. Frankly, it's too shallow a read of the whole situation, especially knowing the comic storyline involving them.
Also, at the end, when the kids were heard calling out to her, she was startled by it. There was no indication in her look and reaction that she simply was remembering them calling for help so she's searching the Darkhold for a way to revive them. I think she was genuinely surprised because she assumed they no longer existed.
I'm going more with the comics storyline, so I'm expecting that Mephisto collected them before the Hex disappeared; thus, they are calling out to her from the astral plane where they are his captives. And I'm drawing on clues from the series: "That's not all he's in around here"; "demon spawn", the stork that Wanda could not make disappear, and the commercial where the shark was "feasting on Yo'magic".
I don't know how the script is going to run, obviously, but my guess is that like Agatha, Mephisto noted the immense magical power flux, saw what was happening, and decided to take advantage of it. Using some sort of influence, he actually fathered the children (in some way) through Wanda so they are actual beings, not simply constructs of her spell. I know they were falling apart like Vision was, but with all the clues that were dropped, I can't believe it's that simple.

 

[Torgo]

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I'm still convinced that when the Fantastic Four movie comes out, there will be scene in Reed Richards' lab, and in the background, we'll spot a half space rover/half panel van, and we will all laugh about it.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

If Mandalorian is a 10, this one is probably a 6.5 for me.

Did you factor in degree of difficulty?

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

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I'm fully convinced Mephisto is still the "big bad' of phase 4. I think Feige is actually borrowing from Daredevil Season 1 where Kingpin didn't even appear until about episode 7 or so (whether he's consciously doing so or not). It was a brilliant buildup and I believe the same sort of build up is happening here: small hints as to someone being behind things, but the characters aren't yet aware of it. Slowly, the clues will build up so the characters realize something larger is happening, and then will have to figure out who is doing it. Once they figure out who it is, then Mephisto will appear (just my guess at how they're mapping it). Then again, he may just appear quickly in Dr. Strange 2 and there we are.

Speaking of which, I was disappointed there was no Dr. Strange appearance in the finale, but I'm understanding with the huge time gap until the film, which wasn't supposed to be the case.

As for Quicksilver, I think somebody at Marvel needs to convince the people in charge to eat their egos and go ahead and make it mean something. If it truly ends up being nothing but a barb to fans, they're going to lose a lot of credibility among the actual comics crowd. Considering his track record so far, it's hard to believe Feige will stick to such a colossal blunder as that.

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Kingpin showed up in the 3rd episode.

 

[Sun Wukong]

While the films barely mentioned AOS (Fury's line in Avengers is all I can remember), Winter Soldier was absolutely integral to AOS and at the time it seemed like the two had been conceived in tandem, especially when Fury showed up on AOS at the end of that first season.

They weren't, even if it seemed that way. AoS was trying very hard to keep up with what was going on in the MCU around that time so it seemed more in line with the movies. Around the time of Winter Soldier was the peak of that. After a while they were basically getting nothing from the movie side of things and kind of abandoned even trying. I swear I remember a report that said they were finding out what was going on in the movies around the same time as the general public in later seasons.

The blood was bad. Feige very nearly quit Marvel because of it.

 

[tenordas]

They weren't, even if it seemed that way. AoS was trying very hard to keep up with what was going on in the MCU around that time so it seemed more in line with the movies. Around the time of Winter Soldier was the peak of that. After a while they were basically getting nothing from the movie side of things and kind of abandoned even trying. I swear I remember a report that said they were finding out what was going on in the movies around the same time as the general public in later seasons.

The blood was bad. Feige very nearly quit Marvel because of it.

Yes, I know the relationship soured almost immediately, but the fact that those SHIELD agent characters from AOS were included in Winter Soldier has to mean there was some sort of cooperation initially. Otherwise, why would they have put those characters in the film? It's not like they were super-consequential people to the plot. They were minor side people, nothing more. There had to have been some cooperation on some level for that to occur. Maybe Perlmutter pushed for more such crossovers and that's when Feige blew a gasket over it (pure speculation)?

 

[Torgo]

Yes, I know the relationship soured almost immediately, but the fact that those SHIELD agent characters from AOS were included in Winter Soldier has to mean there was some sort of cooperation initially. Otherwise, why would they have put those characters in the film? It's not like they were super-consequential people to the plot. They were minor side people, nothing more. There had to have been some cooperation on some level for that to occur. Maybe Perlmutter pushed for more such crossovers and that's when Feige blew a gasket over it (pure speculation)?

When AoS and the Netflix shows were coming out, they were all hyped as being part of the MCU. It's pretty obvious things have changed in that they will pick and choose what to acknowledge and what they will outright contradict. It's pretty much in contrast to how the Arrowverse shows were completely separate from what DC was doing in the movies.

 

[SaintsBrazil]

The Red Smoke

The red smoke was never explained nor was its manifestation revealed. The WandaVision story contained things that did not drive the plot, but did add to the narrative. I think the red smoke is still an indicator of another party at play, specifically with reference to the twins, as it was the stork that resisted Wanda's magic and did not have the color of Agatha's magic or appear in the Agatha all along video IIRC. This means we might be able to keep using our Mephisto memes for a while. Yes, I do think he could be the villan that ties Scarlett Witch, Dr. Strange, and Spider-Man together somehow.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

The Red Smoke

The red smoke was never explained nor was its manifestation revealed. The WandaVision story contained things that did not drive the plot, but did add to the narrative. I think the red smoke is still an indicator of another party at play, specifically with reference to the twins, as it was the stork that resisted Wanda's magic and did not have the color of Agatha's magic or appear in the Agatha all along video IIRC. This means we might be able to keep using our Mephisto memes for a while. Yes, I do think he could be the villan that ties Scarlett Witch, Dr. Strange, and Spider-Man together somehow.

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yup
I’d said earlier, I think Dottie is the only thread that’s been tied off (and maybe the acting director), everything else can be seen as a loose end
Thought about this earlier- the marvel shows might be the closest thing to the comic experience we can get - limited runs that make you want to grab the latest issue ASAP but also ties in with other titles you want to grab —- so the shows are going to have LOTS of dangling threads. Some of which are intended to connect to other shows, but some might just be ‘let’s see if the fans want us to follow (create) these other stories we did not intend to produce

 

[DaveXA]

When AoS and the Netflix shows were coming out, they were all hyped as being part of the MCU. It's pretty obvious things have changed in that they will pick and choose what to acknowledge and what they will outright contradict. It's pretty much in contrast to how the Arrowverse shows were completely separate from what DC was doing in the movies.

I think a lot of people didn't really know about the existing conflicts between studios and the movies vs shows. So, they probably thought at the time that there would be more collaboration to tie things together. Once it became clear that wasn't really happening, the average person probably just decided that the shows on their own were worth checking out.

But clearly, the movies almost never referenced the shows, so they had to stand on their own. I think AOS and the Netflix shows have mostly stood the test of time, and are ultimately part of the MCU in my mind, even if Feige and the movies never acknowledge it.

Stan Lee thought enough of them to appear in them, and that's good enough for me.

 

[Saint by the Bay]

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I'm still convinced that when the Fantastic Four movie comes out, there will be scene in Reed Richards' lab, and in the background, we'll spot a half space rover/half panel van, and we will all laugh about it.

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I wouldn’t be surprised if the failure of the rover to handle the hex radiation isn’t a plot point to the FF origin. Reed built the rover, it didn’t work for that kind of cosmic radiation, so he builds a ship that he thinks can withstand it and takes his family on the trip to test it against some cosmic radiation wave that exists from the destruction of the stones. The same effect that created Pulsar gives us the FF.

It won’t go exactly like that, but they sure set all the pieces up.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

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I wouldn’t be surprised if the failure of the rover to handle the hex radiation isn’t a plot point to the FF origin. Reed built the rover, it didn’t work for that kind of cosmic radiation, so he builds a ship that he thinks can withstand it and takes his family on the trip to test it against some cosmic radiation wave that exists from the destruction of the stones. The same effect that created Pulsar gives us the FF.

It won’t go exactly like that, but they sure set all the pieces up.

But if he changed every part of that ship...