We Are Better without Peat (1 Viewer)

tjharris

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It’s the same couple people that come in hot defending Peat on these threads all the time and that’s fine. Hey, I get that people who are more “students of the game” see something in him that maybe the causal fan does not.

I get that physically he has the tools - he’s big and got tree trunk legs and seemingly can use his mass to move bodies - but I think the offensive line as a unit and therefore the offense as a whole is less effective with Peat in.

For whatever reason
He's a huge man who can move usually everything you need to be a great Olinemen.
But it's the classic case of looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.
He's just not strong at the point if the attack. He may have a weak core. Opposing Dlineman know all you have to do is bull rush Peat. He'd be great in the old Denver zone blocking scheme but when the Saints run power he's a liability. Plus, the Saints aren't the greatest zone running team.
I hope coming out of the break Easton and Ruiz are the guards and Peat is the 6th Olinemen lining up at TE on some plays. I believe with this lineup the NFL wouldn't be able to stop the Saints running game.
 

UFCSaint

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nick is not the highest paid defensive player in the game. But thats ok. he in top 3.

The Nick Bosa we played Monday night was also carrying injuries into the game. So he wasnt at peak level.

dont let the facts get in your way.

You are defending the indefensible. We have been running this waggle with a Guard pulling since SP got here. We ran this same play with the same LG.

The bottom line here is Peats execution of the play was woeful. His feet, his leverage and his inability to adjust ( due to footwork and leverage ) is why this play was blown up if not for the heady play by Drew to dump down to Murray.

This isnt the first time, nor the last, you will see threads on Peat because he has earned himself a reputation in pass protection. Thats all.

If you dont like the threads and what they have to say, simply ignore.
You are honestly wasting your breath.
 

dutar76

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Peat always gets brees killed and Brees is paranoid
Brees is paranoid that his receivers won't be where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there than he is about protection.
Through 5 weeks, our OL is 6th in the league in pass protection. (pressures allowed / sacks allowed)

Peat gets beat now and then just like all offensive linemen. He would be a starter on almost every single team in the league, and would be the best player on the line for several.
 
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Peat showed up to training camp as a rookie out of shape and not deserving of a 1st round pick status.

Now he’s an injury prone lineman who’s a liability for Drew.

He belongs right next to Jarius Byrd, CJ Spiller, and Brandon Browner on the biggest busts of the CSP era.
 
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I admit though, I have very rarely seen him do that (though that could be my memory failing). I remember Ruiz doing that from RG to left side a few times last game, and I remember Warford doing a lot of it in past years. I honestly don't recall seeing Peat do it very often - and last night might be why!

As I mentioned above, I think it wasn't the best designed play action with the RB filling for the pulling guard, and also with the QB not moving from his normal spot...generally should be moving him away from the free DE side. I'd have to look at film at other instances but that's what I recollect.
Agreed, there were two instances I saw in this game where the RG pulled to the left, but both were on running plays and not in pass protection like Peat's.

I don't have them capped or the time stamps, but Easton had one on the first drive on a Murray run where he picked up the WILL and later on the 3rd drive Ruiz also does it on a Taysom run I believe, but the Chargers were a step ahead and there was a gaggle of Chargers and he didn't know who to block.

I think the bigger issue is that his punch gets him off balance...fine if you land it perfectly, but problematic when you miss. And playing against ninja hand master like Bosa means you have to punch and connect without over committing your weight too much forward.
This is something I think the majority of people are glossing over just to go, "hArHaRhAr, pEaT sUcKs". Looking at the tape of the play as he's running to his spot, it appears there's very little to no space off Ramczyk's hip for Bosa to go inside and slide between, so he shifts his weight and leverage outside. Bosa gets just skinny enough to fit in that lane.

I suppose the basic question here is whether or not that opinion is fully justified. I don't think it is really when you watch the film. Case in point, if you watch the film from Monday night you'll very likely see that Peat was very solid to good throughout the game. However, there was a play, as highlighted in this thread, which was a minus and lead to a pressure and QB hit. That one play is then used anecdotally to colour the rest of his play during the game and this season and his career. You can find plays in the game from other OLinemen (TA and Ram both gave of up sacks) and do the same thing...and yet, no one seems to. For others with better reputations (here on this board anyway), those individual plays are not symptomatic, just an aberration or else, just one play out of many.

It is what it is and it doesn't really make any difference to anyone that matters. But that's the bottom line - Peat got a reputation in his first year (unpopular draft pick, out of shape, etc) and any play where he gets a minus (and admittedly he manages to look really clumsy when he does), gets added on to that rep, regardless of his overall performance.
Quoting this for people that ignored it the first time to read. This is the unadulterated truth.

Brees is paranoid that his receivers won't be where they're supposed to be when they're supposed to be there than he is about protection. Through 5 weeks, our OL is 6th in the league in pass protection. (pressures allowed / sacks allowed)

Peat gets beat now and then just like all offensive linemen. He would be a starter on almost every single team in the league, and would be the best player on the line for several.
I concur, including the reigning World Champion, Kansas City Chiefs...

But I guess they know not only more than Payton, Loomis, and Ireland, but apparently more than Reid and Veach too. :rolleyes:
 
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So I finally got around to finish watching the game tape that I started watching last week and I capped a few plays I'm sure the posters in this thread would enjoy discussing... (site only lets me attach 6 clips at a time so bear with me here)
_ _ _
Drive 1: 11:46 left in 1st quarter
  • 2nd & 6 @ LAC 36 - Brees to Kamara for -5 yd; Peat/McCoy combo the 1-tech, Armstead and Ramczyk on islands with the edge guys, Easton gives up a pressure to the 3-tech
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_ _ _
Drive 2 - 5:17 left in 1st quarter
  • 3rd & 9 at NO 23 - Brees to Sanders for 14 yd; Chargers show blitz with 6 rushers but only send 5, Peat stonewalls the 1-tech, Armstead seals his DE, the 4-tech and blitzing LB run a stunt on McCoy/Easton who pick it up well but the LB starts to gain positioning on Easton late in the play, Ramczyk gives up a pressure to Bosa
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_ _ _
Drive 4 - 11:01 left in 2nd quarter
  • 1st & 10 at NO 25 - Brees incomplete to Callaway; Peat/McCoy combo the 1-tech, Ruiz/Ramczyk combo the 3-tech, Hurst (eligible) contains the 9-tech, Armstead contains the SAM for awhile before finally giving up a pressure due to no one being open downfield
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_ _ _
Drive 5 - 6:04 left in 2nd quarter
  • 3rd & 4 at NO 22 - Brees intercepted by Adderley; Peat starts to combo the 0-tech with McCoy but since the NT is going away from him he doesn't chase and instead picks up the blitzing LB, Ramczyk rides down Bosa, Armstead gets beat with a swipe by the DE and gives up the pressure resulting in the INT
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_ _ _
Drive 6 - 2:46 left in 2nd quarter
  • 3rd & 6 at NO 41 - Brees incomplete to Kamara; Chargers again show a 6-man pressure but send 5, instead of Armstead picking up the blitzing CB on the outside and allowing Peat to take the 5-tech, he combos him with Peat and allows Desmond King a free pass into the backfield off the left end, McCoy takes the 0-tech 1-on-1 and does well, Ruiz/Ramczyk combo Bosa but also results in the blitzing LB pressuring Brees, not sure who to put that on
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_ _ _
Drive 7 - 1:59 left in 2nd quarter
  • 1st & 10 at NO 49 - Brees incomplete to Fowler; Chargers DL runs dual twists, Armstead and Peat are able to pass off and pick up their rushers, but Ruiz is late in disengaging his man to pick up Bosa from Ramczyk and Brees had to get rid of the ball early
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_ _ _
Drive 8 - 13:17 left in 3rd quarter
  • 1st & 10 at NO 36 - Kamara left tackle for 3 yd; Armstead and Peat both win their 1-on-1's, McCoy shoots to the 2nd level leaving Ruiz out to dry with the 1-tech (who has a step on him) and it forces Kamara to slow down and cut up behind him just long enough that the unblocked backside DE can close and make the tackle
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  • 2nd & 7 at NO 39 - Brees sacked for -7 yd; Peat contains the 1-tech, McCoy/Ruiz combo the 4i-tech, Ramczyk pins his edge rusher against Ruiz and McCoy's guy after he appears to want to run a twist then hesitates, Armstead gets walked back into Brees by his edge rusher who may've gotten away with hand to the face
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_ _ _
Drive 9 - 6:27 left in 3rd quarter
  • 2nd & 10 at LAC 41 - Kamara right guard for no gain; Peat seals Bosa off the backside, Armstead chases him a bit before and is probably out of position but it didn't really affect the play, Ramczyk walls off the 3-tech, McCoy/Ruiz attempt to combo the 1-tech (Linval Joseph) but he overpowers both and is able to grab Kamara before he can get out the hole, likely a minus for both
View attachment trim.21D1DF8A-096B-4A39-82B9-E05C3534AF25.MOV
 
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Note: After gaining 35 yards on the first 4 plays of Drive #10, the next 6 plays all happened in succession and were about as ugly an entire OL unit can play and without Brees, Kamara, and Sanders working a little magic before Brees hits Cook on that 41-yd TD, we could've lost any and all momentum we had started to build upon.
_ _ _
Drive 10 - 14:27 left in 4th quarter
  • 2nd & 1 at NO 46 - Burton right guard for 2 yd; Peat/McCoy combo the 1-tech, Ruiz/Ramczyk combo the 3-tech, Armstead bumps up to the next level and leaves the LB with backside contain unblocked who gets the tackle, possibly a minus for him but we did gain the 1 yard for a fresh set of downs
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  • 1st & 10 at NO 48 - Brees incomplete to Hill; Peat starts the rep with good hand placement then the 2i-tech (Linval Joseph) gets him off balance and he gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar and is tagged for holding, McCoy/Ruiz combo the 3-tech, Ramczyk is also walked back by edge rusher on his side who reaches Brees right around the time Joseph does, minus for both
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  • 1st & 20 at NO 38 - Brees to Sanders for 15 yd; Peat again loses leverage against Joseph once he gets inside and gets him off balance leading to a QB hit so another minus, McCoy/Ruiz combo the 3-tech, Armstead and Ramczyk both stay home after both their edge rushers are chipped by Cook and Kamara, respectively
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  • 2nd & 5 at LAC 47 - Kamara right end for 10 yd; Peat holds his running lane and guides the 3-tech back to Armstead before bumping up to the 2nd level where Kenneth Murray has to dodge him, McCoy can't keep his run lane clean against the 1-tech (Joseph, again) who almost blows the play up in the backfield if not for tripping over his teammate that Ramczyk is blocking
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  • 1st & 10 at LAC 37 - Brees sacked for -5 yd; Peat stands the 1-tech up, McCoy/Ruiz combo the 3-tech and that's the only good thing about this play, Armstead gives up a QB hit (also could've been called for holding) to his edge rusher and Ramczyk gives up the sack to Bosa after getting put on the spin cycle, minus for both
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  • 2nd & 15 at LAC 42 - Kamara left end for 1 yd; Chargers show a 6-man pressure again, Peat chips the 1-tech with McCoy before bumping up to the next level to put a hat on the MIKE, Armstead seals the SAM (again close to getting called for holding), McCoy again can't hold his running lane and the 1-tech drives him right into Kamara's path forcing him to adjust and ad-lib, Ruiz picks up one of the blitzing LB's, Ramczyk takes the 3-tech on the backside
View attachment FullSizeRender.mov
 
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_ _ _
Drive 11 - 7:12 left in 4th quarter
  • 1st & 10 at NO 23 - Kamara left guard for 2 yd; Peat shoots to the 2nd level and puts a hat on the MIKE, Armstead takes his edge rusher out of the play, McCoy has good positioning against the 1-tech but can't move him enough to seal him out the play, Ruiz/Ramczyk combo the 3-tech to begin but once Ramczyk releases to move up and pick up the WILL, Ruiz over pursues and loses positioning, however the catalyst to this play being blown up is Griffin absolutely whiffs at cutting the 5-tech at the start of the play and it's all downhill from there
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  • 3rd & 8 at NO 25 - Brees to Callaway for 3 yd; Chargers show a 6-man pressure but drop out into 5 with a delayed blitz from the MIKE, Peat takes Bosa first before passing him off to McCoy and then picking up the blitzing LB, Ruiz stuffs the 0-tech as Ramczyk shuts down the edge on his side, Armstead is expecting #44 to blitz but when #44 appears to pick up Murray in the flat, he goes to see if anyone needs help inside when #44 then decides to blitz and gets a QB hit on Brees
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_ _ _
Drive 12 - 2:01 left in 4th quarter
  • 2nd & 1 at NO 47 - Kamara right end for 10 yd; Chargers showing 5-man pressure again but the LB drops out and the nickel CB comes instead and is picked up by Armstead as Peat picks up the 5-tech, McCoy seals out the 1-tech but appears to be expecting help from Ruiz who whiffs but then shoots into the 2nd level as Ramczyk takes the 3-tech, this play appears to be a run-left but I think the blitzing CB makes Kamara decide to reverse field but had he followed behind the blocks he possibly could've had an even longer run
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  • 2nd 10 at LAC 15 - Brees to Callaway for 6 yd; Peat takes the 3-tech, Armstead takes the 7-tech, Ramczyk drops into his pass set and has to wait for his edge rusher to engage him, McCoy/Ruiz try to combo the 1-tech (Joseph, again) and he swim moves around McCoy for the pressure but thankfully Murray is in the backfield to assist and prevent it being a QB hit
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_ _ _
Drive 13 - 8:02 left in overtime
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 40 - Brees to Sanders for 5 yd; Chargers again try to run a twist with the 5-tech and the 3-tech at Armstead/Peat and again it's picked up flawlessly, Bosa tries to beat Ramczyk with his outside speed but isn't successful, Ruiz gets hit with the same swim move McCoy just got from Joseph and gives up a QB hit
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  • 2nd & 5 at LAC 35 - Brees to Murray for 13 yd; the play widely discussed throughout this thread, Peat kicking out and missing the block on Bosa resulting in a QB hit, can't miss that one considering everyone else held their blocks, big minus
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_ _ _














_ _ _
So by my unofficial tally:
  • Armstead: 1 sack, 2 hits, 2 pressures, 2 missed assignments
  • Peat: 2 hits, 1 pressure/penalty
  • McCoy: 1 pressure, 4 missed run blocking assignments
  • Ruiz: 1 hit, 2 pressures, 3 missed run blocking assignments
  • Ramczyk: 1 sack, 2 pressures
  • Easton: 1 pressure
Now my tally is unofficial, as is anyone's who doesn't work for the Saints organization, but it's clear to see when looking at the tape that if Peat had as bad of a game as y'all are stating then he definitely wasn't alone.

Discuss.
 
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dapperdan

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_ _ _
Drive 11 - 7:12 left in 4th quarter
  • 1st & 10 at NO 23 - Kamara left guard for 2 yd; Peat shoots to the 2nd level and puts a hat on the MIKE, Armstead takes his edge rusher out of the play, McCoy has good positioning against the 1-tech but can't move him enough to seal him out the play, Ruiz/Ramczyk combo the 3-tech to begin but once Ramczyk releases to move up and pick up the WILL, Ruiz over pursues and loses positioning, however the catalyst to this play being blown up is Griffin absolutely whiffs at cutting the 5-tech at the start of the play and it's all downhill from there
View attachment FullSizeRender.mov















  • 3rd & 8 at NO 25 - Brees to Callaway for 3 yd; Chargers show a 6-man pressure but drop out into 5 with a delayed blitz from the MIKE, Peat takes Bosa first before passing him off to McCoy and then picking up the blitzing LB, Ruiz stuffs the 0-tech as Ramczyk shuts down the edge on his side, Armstead is expecting #44 to blitz but when #44 appears to pick up Murray in the flat, he goes to see if anyone needs help inside when #44 then decides to blitz and gets a QB hit on Brees
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_ _ _
Drive 12 - 2:01 left in 4th quarter
  • 2nd & 1 at NO 47 - Kamara right end for 10 yd; Chargers showing 5-man pressure again but the LB drops out and the nickel CB comes instead and is picked up by Armstead as Peat picks up the 5-tech, McCoy seals out the 1-tech but appears to be expecting help from Ruiz who whiffs but then shoots into the 2nd level as Ramczyk takes the 3-tech, this play appears to be a run-left but I think the blitzing CB makes Kamara decide to reverse field but had he followed behind the blocks he possibly could've had an even longer run
View attachment FullSizeRender.mov















  • 2nd 10 at LAC 15 - Brees to Callaway for 6 yd; Peat takes the 3-tech, Armstead takes the 7-tech, Ramczyk drops into his pass set and has to wait for his edge rusher to engage him, McCoy/Ruiz try to combo the 1-tech (Joseph, again) and he swim moves around McCoy for the pressure but thankfully Murray is in the backfield to assist and prevent it being a QB hit
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_ _ _
Drive 13 - 8:02 left in overtime
  • 1st & 10 at LAC 40 - Brees to Sanders for 5 yd; Chargers again try to run a twist with the 5-tech and the 3-tech at Armstead/Peat and again it's picked up flawlessly, Bosa tries to beat Ramczyk with his outside speed but isn't successful, Ruiz gets hit with the same swim move McCoy just got from Joseph and gives up a QB hit
View attachment FullSizeRender.mov















  • 2nd & 5 at LAC 35 - Brees to Murray for 13 yd; the play widely discussed throughout this thread, Peat kicking out and missing the block on Bosa resulting in a QB hit, can't miss that one considering everyone else held their blocks, big minus
View attachment FullSizeRender.mov
_ _ _














_ _ _
So by my unofficial tally:
  • Armstead: 1 sack, 2 hits, 2 pressures, 2 missed assignments
  • Peat: 2 hits, 1 pressure/penalty
  • McCoy: 1 pressure, 4 missed run blocking assignments
  • Ruiz: 1 hit, 2 pressures, 3 missed run blocking assignments
  • Ramczyk: 1 sack, 2 pressures
  • Easton: 1 pressure
Now my tally is unofficial, as is anyone's who doesn't work for the Saints organization, but it's clear to see when looking at the tape that if Peat had as bad of a game as y'all are stating then he definitely wasn't alone.

Discuss.
I love the breakdown. People on here refuse to give him any credit. Peat is a heck of a player.
 

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So by my unofficial tally:
  • Armstead: 1 sack, 2 hits, 2 pressures, 2 missed assignments
  • Peat: 2 hits, 1 pressure/penalty
  • McCoy: 1 pressure, 4 missed run blocking assignments
  • Ruiz: 1 hit, 2 pressures, 3 missed run blocking assignments
  • Ramczyk: 1 sack, 2 pressures
  • Easton: 1 pressure
Now my tally is unofficial, as is anyone's who doesn't work for the Saints organization, but it's clear to see when looking at the tape that if Peat had as bad of a game as y'all are stating then he definitely wasn't alone.

Discuss.
Alan, that's a lot of work you put in reviewing and posting, as I well know. Thank you.

I didn't review the game myself, just watched the televised copy a couple of times and what you've posted in terms of clips chimes with what I thought I saw. The subject of this thread, Peat, was fine for the most part. Like any OLineman, he had some good plays, a large chunk of plays that were fine, and a couple he'd like to have back. The same as the rest of our OL and certainly not deserving of being singled out.

And more broadly, we gave up two sacks and some pressures and hits, but to my eyes, these were generally late sacks and late pressures (rather than the QB having someone breathing down his neck when he gets to the end of his drop). And the narrative that Brees' performance is down to him running for his life or having no trust in his OL (or like some prefer to do, no trust in Peat specifically) is patent nonsense.
 

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This is something I think the majority of people are glossing over just to go, "hArHaRhAr, pEaT sUcKs". Looking at the tape of the play as he's running to his spot, it appears there's very little to no space off Ramczyk's hip for Bosa to go inside and slide between, so he shifts his weight and leverage outside. Bosa gets just skinny enough to fit in that lane.
I suppose to expand on that play a little bit. As a former OLineman, I can only highlight how difficult it is to pull at speed to meet a free edge rusher, slow down quickly, re-establish a proper base, get in a solid punch without over-committing, against someone who knows how to use his hands instinctively. Having done that sort of thing, I can feel the pain. Also, having been made to look stupid and clumsy from time to time by really good players, I know how it feels. But, Olinemen are not prima donnas - they mess up, get picked up by their OL brothers, and keep working. It's a special bond.
 
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Eman5805

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Thing that gets me is “Peat is terrible!” Preceded by video him whiffing Or getting son’d by Joey Bosa, Aaron Donald, or Calais Campbell.

Did we overpay? Possibly. But not by some huge margin I feel. But now people are waiting for him to screw up. And with offensive lineman, if they aren’t absolutely flawless and dominant you don’t even notice them. And you aren’t ever supposed to. OLs job is to make everything else in the offense look good. They’re the roadies. When they work, they’re invisible, save them he best of the best. When they’re not they stick out like a turd in a swimming pool.

And Peat’s issue is he’s average with high peaks and low valleys. Very good on the run game, prone to embarrassment vs talent in the pass game.
 

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Peat’s issue is he’s average with high peaks and low valleys. Very good on the run game, prone to embarrassment vs talent in the pass game.
An additional reason why it's imperative to emphasize the rushing attack this season.

Some people think Sean Payton doesn't like to run the ball. I disagree, but with a conditional statement. Payton likes to run the ball when it's getting 5 to 8 yards at a time. HOWEVER, when it starts becoming more like 2 or 3 yard gains, it's like he starts getting impatient and then thinks to himself "oh, yeah, I have a record setting QB at my disposal" and the cycle repeats itself.
 

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