We Didn't Get Lucky (1 Viewer)

RJ in Lafayette

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After a night to reflect, I am not upset with the Vaccaro selection and believe that it was the best selection that we could have made. I would have preferred a defensive lineman because top defensive linemen are drafted more highly than top safeties and teams often drafting low often do not have a chance to pick a defensive lineman like Sheldon Richardson or Star Lotilelei. But at 13 the Jets picked Richardson--the Tampa trade ended up hurting us--and at 14 Carolina picked Lotulelei. This was my fear--we would be one slot away from selecting a player who could have well been a top 10 pick and who fell. Late season wins for a team sitting out the playoffs can matter.

At 15, the Saints had basically four options: Floyd, Jarvis Jones, Vaccaro, trading down. Let's examine:

1. The first option was Floyd, who was projected in most mock drafts to be a top 10 and even top 5 pick. However, even after the Saints passed on Floyd, he lasted another 8 picks or so until he was selected by Minnesota. The problem with Floyd was fit. If there was at least a question of Richardson being a good fit for a 3-4, there was a big question of Floyd being a good fit for that defense.

2. The second option was Jarvis Jones. I was not a proponent of Jones--the medical condition, the combine results, the practice habits, the questions about lateral range. However, many of you were proponents, and the Steelers with a much vaunted 3-4 defense two picks later did select Jones.

3. The third option was Vaccaro. He apparently fits what Ryan wants to do on defense--and he did fill a need. Someone else has commented that a factor with the Vaccaro pick was the return of Tony Gonzalez and the Atlanta passing attack, and I agree.

4. The fourth option was trading down. Based on the trades made, no team gave up a second round draft pick to move up to a first round pick that was not in the top 10. Dallas mpoved from 18 to 31 for a third round pick (a poor trade by Dallas). But Atlanta moving up gave up only a third round pick and change. Looking at the trades made last night, I believe that no team was offering us a second round pick to move up. The trading down option depended heavily on Tavon Austin being available, and a small bidding war ensuing. He went long before 15 (in my opinion, the result less of Austin's skill set than the absurdly tiny pool of top wide receivers and running backs this year).

My guess is that the options were really two--Jones and Vaccaro--and Vaccaro was judged the more athletic player and the safer pick. I am not thrilled about the selection, but it was dictated largely by the events of the evening before the Saints picked.
 
^^^Basically. I think it feels weird because in our collective wisdom we just thought Jones would be the guy. Not saying he's better, but many of us wanted a LB or DL. Kenny might turn out the a star, but can't say I'm all excited. Crazy draft.
 
The Saints knew the 49ers were trading up to get a safety. They couldn't risk falling too far down to get Vaccaro. Teams know what the other wants, which is why the phones weren't ringing. The 49ers knew the Saints response if they called.
 
Floyd dropped because a lot of teams fear his short arms will be a major problem at the pro level. His best fit will be in the 4-3 where he doesn't have to face long armed OTs.


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To the contrary, I am sure that they could care less, and I could care less that they could care less.

During the day yesterday, I kept thinking that we were picking one slot too high, though I had in mind Carolina at 14 picking Richardson. And I think the way it turned out is that we were were drafting one slot too high--hence, the title of the thread.

I will add that I suspect our celebrity defensive coordinator du jour took delight in the pick because Dallas was supposedly interested in Vaccaro.
 
In my very simplistic view, I'm more excited about this pick then if we had taken a pass rusher.

Why? Because I see much more potential for greatness in Galette, Butler, and Wilson (And we will draft another LB at some point) vs. Harper and Jenkins.

So if I'm having to improve one position, I'd rather roll with what we have at rush backer and inject some elite talent into the safety position. Namely, someone who can actually cover.
 
To the contrary, I am sure that they could care less, and I could care less that they could care less.

During the day yesterday, I kept thinking that we were picking one slot too high, though I had in mind Carolina at 14 picking Richardson. And I think the way it turned out is that we were were drafting one slot too high--hence, the title of the thread.

I will add that I suspect our celebrity defensive coordinator du jour took delight in the pick because Dallas was supposedly interested in Vaccaro.

While I was less than thrilled with the pick, I do wonder if Payton sent an empty wine bottle to Jerry Jones after picking Vaccaro last night. :mwink: :hihi:
 
Still bitter that the Jets took Richardson with both Wilkerson and Coples already on that line...

But like the Vaccaro pick, given what was available.
 
From the beginning of the process I wrote that our biggest need was safety. I thought also that it was besides either the Georgia linebackers or Vaccaro.

The only reason I would have picked Jones over Vaccaro was that I think that there will be better options at safety then OLB at the third round, but obviously the saints staff have rated Kenny better then Jarvis.

Now, If we can get a good outside linebacker, a 3-4 defensive end and an offensive tackle for depth, I am happy.

Draft is no over yet. I am starting to think that the Ivory trade is a no go. We may not be able to fill all of our holes but I am betting we can get at least two more solid players.
 
RJ I cannot agree with you more. For many years I have heard that the good drafting teams 'let the draft come to them' and do not reach like a few teams did last night. I too was really hoping that one of the pass rushers or stud DT's would fall but those type players do not last long and this year they did not.
Vaccaro was not the sexy pick, but IMO he does fill a need, is considered the best at his position group in this draft by most, and gives our back end defense some athleticism and that is not a bad thing at all.
The real opportunity of this draft for our Saints will come with our picks starting in round 3 and hopefully the picking up of another 4th round choice from the Jets. This year we cannot afford to miss on those picks as we need guys who can come in and contribute at OT, DL, CB and I think WR.
 
In my very simplistic view, I'm more excited about this pick then if we had taken a pass rusher.

Why? Because I see much more potential for greatness in Galette, Butler, and Wilson (And we will draft another LB at some point) vs. Harper and Jenkins.

So if I'm having to improve one position, I'd rather roll with what we have at rush backer and inject some elite talent into the safety position. Namely, someone who can actually cover.

I agree.

We didn't necessarily need another "potentially" good edge rusher. We have 3 of those already.
 
. Late season wins for a team sitting out the playoffs can matter.

.

Any coach or player who would lose a game on purpose, I don't want..
If any player steps on the field with the intention of losing, he has no place in this game.. same for the coach who would gameplan to lose intentionally has no place on the sidelines..
These guys are professionals, no one 'wants' to lose..
 
I said that I wouldn't be unhappy with a Vaccaro pick, depending on who was still on board.

Would have preferred Jones, but Vaccaro is defensible. Jones has some physical limitations but has quite a bit of upside and could potentially be a huge upgrade to our D by creating havoc coming off the edge. I have no doubt Vaccaro will be a solid, lontime starter, but imo a good edge rusher can impact your defense more than a good safety. We played it safe and got a guy who's going to be at worst a consistent starter instead of gambling on a guy who has the possibility of being a top pass rusher.
 
After a night to reflect, I am not upset with the Vaccaro selection and believe that it was the best selection that we could have made. I would have preferred a defensive lineman because top defensive linemen are drafted more highly than top safeties and teams often drafting low often do not have a chance to pick a defensive lineman like Sheldon Richardson or Star Lotilelei. But at 13 the Jets picked Richardson--the Tampa trade ended up hurting us--and at 14 Carolina picked Lotulelei. This was my fear--we would be one slot away from selecting a player who could have well been a top 10 pick and who fell. Late season wins for a team sitting out the playoffs can matter.

At 15, the Saints had basically four options: Floyd, Jarvis Jones, Vaccaro, trading down. Let's examine:

1. The first option was Floyd, who was projected in most mock drafts to be a top 10 and even top 5 pick. However, even after the Saints passed on Floyd, he lasted another 8 picks or so until he was selected by Minnesota. The problem with Floyd was fit. If there was at least a question of Richardson being a good fit for a 3-4, there was a big question of Floyd being a good fit for that defense.

2. The second option was Jarvis Jones. I was not a proponent of Jones--the medical condition, the combine results, the practice habits, the questions about lateral range. However, many of you were proponents, and the Steelers with a much vaunted 3-4 defense two picks later did select Jones.

3. The third option was Vaccaro. He apparently fits what Ryan wants to do on defense--and he did fill a need. Someone else has commented that a factor with the Vaccaro pick was the return of Tony Gonzalez and the Atlanta passing attack, and I agree.

4. The fourth option was trading down. Based on the trades made, no team gave up a second round draft pick to move up to a first round pick that was not in the top 10. Dallas mpoved from 18 to 31 for a third round pick (a poor trade by Dallas). But Atlanta moving up gave up only a third round pick and change. Looking at the trades made last night, I believe that no team was offering us a second round pick to move up. The trading down option depended heavily on Tavon Austin being available, and a small bidding war ensuing. He went long before 15 (in my opinion, the result less of Austin's skill set than the absurdly tiny pool of top wide receivers and running backs this year).

My guess is that the options were really two--Jones and Vaccaro--and Vaccaro was judged the more athletic player and the safer pick. I am not thrilled about the selection, but it was dictated largely by the events of the evening before the Saints picked.

I will say that the vikes gave up a 2,3, and 4 to go get Patterson. But I don't think I'd of wanted to move down that far. I'm happy with the vaccaro selection. It grew on me overnight and while I wanted Jarvis, safety is certainly the more suspect position on our roster. Mr Harper, you have officially been out on notice.
 
Draft is no over yet. I am starting to think that the Ivory trade is a no go. We may not be able to fill all of our holes but I am betting we can get at least two more solid players.

Why do you think a trade involving Ivory will not happen now? What has changed that would see the Jets no longer be interested?
 

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