We got our old Sean Payton back (1 Viewer)

Well if you're not bothered by this team playing at home against the worst pass defense in the NFL and making them look like the 06 Bears, then I don't know what to say.

Especially with the fact Payton is likely our head coach for the next 2 to 3 seasons.

I wasnt one of the ones calling for us to run the table and I even called out saints fans for being over confident against a decent Detroit team.

That being said, this was extremely unacceptable that he didn't have this team ready to play, nor could make any in game adjustments.

They aren't the worst pass defense in the NFL. You are cherry picking completion %. They are middle of the pack in actual yards given up. They play a very bend/don't break style of defense that works for them.

The Lions are one of the better teams in the league. We had a lot not bounce our way today as well. That's the NFL. And if you leave yourself no room for error, you have to expect this outcome eventually.
 
I'm pretty sure it was over after last season. Time for change was then.

I've seen nothing to indicate that the fatal flaws have been corrected.

-The need to stick it to Greg Williams for sake of grudge is an indicator. -Having to hire a crony as DC in Allen is an indicator.
-Inability to address coaching and teaching on Special teams is an indicator.
-Snap decision on the rookie kicker on the eve of season opener is an indicator
-Fleener signing an indicator.
-Forcing to Cooks today to reward whining and indicator
-Emasculating Pete Charmichael over and over by taking away play calling is another indicator.


Man just stfup you only come around when we're not playing good or there is a i told you so, go crawl back into your hold and rot...if you ever had anything positive say your input would be more incline to listen to, until you can play both sides of the fence keep your negative only spin cycle where you keep your positive ones
 
Man just stfup you only come around when we're not playing good or there is a i told you so, go crawl back into your hold and rot...if you ever had anything positive say your input would be more incline to listen to, until you can play both sides of the fence keep your negative only spin cycle where you keep your positive ones
Third straight season.
 
Third straight season.

I understand that blackadder...trust me I see the the good and the bad, and as of late it's been more of the same ol same ol. I don't like it as much as you do believe me, Payton is a lot to blame for it, he is the head coach so the weight falls on his shoulders, that's not what I'm disputing. We are in a rebuild for those who like it or not. Has it been peachy **** no, were all frustrated as saints fans cause were so close in these damn games which makes it seem like it's all the coaches fault, it's not. We don't have the solid structure on the field as regards to players...my beef with you is you only run your mouth nine out of ten times when it's to jump on the team for a loss but are very scarce when we beat a rams defense by double digits and can't acknowledge the victory being more than a grudge game. Give praise as much as it's due as when u give fault and you won't be looked upon as much as a troll as I and others see you as.
 
Not that mad about this specific game. This is the NFL. There will be off weeks.

If your plan is "win 5 straight games" to make the playoffs, you've already lost. When we started 0-3, the season was over.

It's just been a delayed accepting of that.
Some of these fans saw 49 pts last week and want SO BAD to return to 2009-2011.

That's the issue in a nutshell.

We are a good year away, but moving somewhat right direction. Especially defense...and 2nd half adjustments. Today want best called defense.

And that early dropped int that would have been 6, was a 10 pt swing.

Not to mention grabbing the momentum early.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
So much for what we saw last week vs the rams.

Our worst fears have come true.

He simply doesn't have it anymore.

Reminds me a ton of Jeff Fisher. Had a great run for a few seasons and not much else to show. The only difference is thank goodness we got a Lombardi out of it.


It won't surprise me if he retires with Brees. I know Brees keeps saying he will play to 45 but he will find out that all QBs hit that wall around 38 or 39 years old.
 
They aren't the worst pass defense in the NFL. You are cherry picking completion %. They are middle of the pack in actual yards given up. They play a very bend/don't break style of defense that works for them.

The Lions are one of the better teams in the league. We had a lot not bounce our way today as well. That's the NFL. And if you leave yourself no room for error, you have to expect this outcome eventually.

No I'm cherry picking qb rating. Not sure why you would think I would choose something as solely insignificant as completion percentage. That's silly.
 
I'd be disagreeing with y'all but he couldn't manage the clock to save his dying mother.
This is not the first time this year poor clock management has killed the Saints. In the Giants game we no timeouts left at the end of the 4th. If we'd had 1-2, we could have stopped the clock on the Giants last drive and at least gotten another shot.

I was there :(
 
I understand that blackadder...trust me I see the the good and the bad, and as of late it's been more of the same ol same ol. I don't like it as much as you do believe me, Payton is a lot to blame for it, he is the head coach so the weight falls on his shoulders, that's not what I'm disputing. We are in a rebuild for those who like it or not. Has it been peachy **** no, were all frustrated as saints fans cause were so close in these damn games which makes it seem like it's all the coaches fault, it's not. We don't have the solid structure on the field as regards to players...my beef with you is you only run your mouth nine out of ten times when it's to jump on the team for a loss but are very scarce when we beat a rams defense by double digits and can't acknowledge the victory being more than a grudge game. Give praise as much as it's due as when u give fault and you won't be looked upon as much as a troll as I and others see you as.
I've been pretty consistent with this for a lot longer than three seasons.

Not so much that Payton needed to go, but that he needed to evolve and figure out the defense, special teams, lose the impetuous decisions, grudge motivation and lose the nepotism or this would all be his undoing in the end.

He's still trending the wrong way and the results are stacking up in the negative column. Since I've seen not much evidence he's really evolved in the way he manages the team I did arrive last year at the conclusion that it's matter of time for him unless he makes some changes quick.

Anyway, there's been a lot made of 'negativity' on the board so as close as I can interpret that it means you can't have these discussions after a win.

So now is the time.

Payton needs help and needs to temper his ego and admit it or this isn't going to get overcome. Hopefully Allen has a multi-season plan for the defense and Payton lets him own it and doesn't intervene.

I have no answers for ST and kicking game since Payton seems to think he knows how to pick a kicker (11 kickers in 11 seasons!) and that McMahon is the man to coach the unit.
 
Not that mad about this specific game. This is the NFL. There will be off weeks.

If your plan is "win 5 straight games" to make the playoffs, you've already lost. When we started 0-3, the season was over.

It's just been a delayed accepting of that.

Dead on exactly right. We went out there and played a crappy game. Everything seemed to go against us. No turnovers, the early 3rd and 1 failures, critical calls against us, brees underthrowing cooks by a few inches.. i could go on and on. the fact is, these games just happen.

We could still very easily by 7-5 right now without a raiders 2-point conversion and broncos blocked extra point. But going 0-3 put us behind the 8-ball. Amazingly, it's my opinion we can still win the division at 9-7 (because I think the falcons will drop one more). But expecting to win out, even when we've been playing pretty well recently, is never realistic. Too many ways games can swing against you. If we stop Detroit on that 4th quarter third and long, I still think we win today despite a horrid effort.
 
I've been pretty consistent with this for a lot longer than three seasons.

Not so much that Payton needed to go, but that he needed to evolve and figure out the defense, special teams, lose the impetuous decisions, grudge motivation and lose the nepotism or this would all be his undoing in the end.

He's still trending the wrong way and the results are stacking up in the negative column.

There's been a lot made of 'negativity' on the board so as close as I can interpret that it means you can't have these discussions after a win.

So now is the time.

Payton needs help and needs to temper his ego and admit it or this isn't going to get overcome. Hopefully Allen has a plan for the defense and Payton lets him own it.

I have no answers for ST and kicking game since Payton seems to think he knows how to pick a kicker (11 kickers in 11 seasons!) and that McMahon is the man to coach the unit.

This is one heck of a post.
 
No I'm cherry picking qb rating. Not sure why you would think I would choose something as solely insignificant as completion percentage. That's silly.

QB rating is because of the completion % they give up. But they do not give up a lot of yards. The Lions are 14th in pass defense.

Saying they are the worst pass defense in the league is just false.
 
By far the most inexplicable part of Payton's career is how even-keeled he generally presents himself to the audience. He rarely harangues the refs for poor decisions, and tends to always fall back on the company slogan of "we will work on this" and "I have to do better". He doesn't sell players short publicly or rip them for boneheaded plays. These are all good things for a head coach.

But: the team rarely appears as focused as he does. We are generally on the top (or is it bottom?) of the league in penalties, which are themselves physical manifestations of mental errors. The team often shows a lack of awareness, both situationally and in regards to the clock and location. *Something* happens in the locker room - whether that be a preference for physical attributes over mental & football acuity - that presents a mixed message to the fan. I'm not absolutely certain that it pertains to his on-field aggressiveness, in that the team (spec. Brees) looks for chunks of yardage with a single-minded focus on the result rather than the process, but I think that may be the primary culprit in why the Saints struggle so badly to get over the hump. Yes, winning in the NFL is TOUGH. There are many things that conspire to make it difficult to win, even against perennial bottom-feeders like Cleveland and Jacksonville, but I fear that Payton's scheme and general coaching outlook is exactly what it has shown over the last several years: inconsistency and occasionally brilliant play which masks the lows. There is a tease that the brilliant us is the real us waiting to come out, but I fear it is always just a shadow of our potential, possible only because we have so many lows that enable it. Payton's aggressive coaching demeanor is both the blessing and the curse. Our offensive statistics always show us near the top. Our poor turnover differential and inability to (as of recently) assert that offensive superiority in crunch time belie the price we pay to be so explosive. Payton has traded the conventional assertion of ball control and defense for a team capable of quick strikes and sudden success. That we won a Super Bowl with it is undoubtedly verification of his style, for himself. I wonder if that is why successful long-term coaches are so very rare in the NFL; success eats itself.
 
I'm pretty sure it was over after last season. Time for change was then.

I've seen nothing to indicate that the fatal flaws have been corrected.

-The need to stick it to Greg Williams for sake of grudge is an indicator. -Having to hire a crony as DC in Allen is an indicator.
-Inability to address coaching and teaching on Special teams is an indicator.
-Snap decision on the rookie kicker on the eve of season opener is an indicator
-Fleener signing an indicator.
-Forcing to Cooks today to reward whining and indicator
-Emasculating Pete Charmichael over and over by taking away play calling is another indicator.

I agree that the time to make a change was last year. Could have let Payton walk, maybe received compensation from another team and taken a shot with someone new. But, that hasn't been Benson or Loomis' MO in the past. We kept Haslett around at least two years longer than he should have been around. And, while Benson would have been smart to let Ditka go after a single season, three years was way too much for him. I guessing it's a no brainer that Loomis / Payton remain at the helm again in 2017.

Obviously, this let down game was indicative of how much emotion was involved for Payton to "get back" at Greg Williams (not good).

The only point I'll disagree with you on is Dennis Allen. Why he might have been a Payton coach in the past, so there was clearly familiarity there . I actually think he's worked out pretty well. The defense has certainly improved and I think he's a keeper as a DC. It's just taking a while to get the Rob Ryan stench out of this defense.
 
I agree that the time to make a change was last year. Could have let Payton walk, maybe received compensation from another team and taken a shot with someone new. But, that hasn't been Benson or Loomis' MO in the past. We kept Haslett around at least two years longer than he should have been around. And, while Benson would have been smart to let Ditka go after a single season, three years was way too much for him. I guessing it's a no brainer that Loomis / Payton remain at the helm again in 2017.

Obviously, this let down game was indicative of how much emotion was involved for Payton to "get back" at Greg Williams (not good).

The only point I'll disagree with you on is Dennis Allen. Why he might have been a Payton coach in the past, so there was clearly familiarity there . I actually think he's worked out pretty well. The defense has certainly improved and I think he's a keeper as a DC. It's just taking a while to get the Rob Ryan stench out of this defense.
The defense has played better.

I just wasn't encouraged that Payton could only go back to the well with a past employee and didn't even seem to consider looking elsewhere for a proven or up and coming talent.

If we kept Haslett two years two long (who was terrible and ran an undisciplined zoo of n organization) then we'll probably keep Payton for the whole 5 year extension unless the wheels truly come off.

Certainty of ~8-8 seems to be enough.
 

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

    Back
    Top Bottom