Wealth tax (1 Viewer)

Dre

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https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/24/elizabeth-warren-to-propose-new-wealth-tax-economic-advisor.html

Elizabeth Warren is going to propose a wealth tax apparently. I’ll be honest, I don’t hate this nearly as much as an income tax increase. Probably because I’m not wealthy. You know wealthy Republicans will hate it either way (income or wealth tax). But I’ll enjoy seeing the response from wealthy liberals (they might not care honestly, but I’d like to see anyway). Wealth inequality is so much greater than income inequality. Income tax makes it more difficult for people to become wealthy, but a wealth tax really hits the mega rich.

I am not saying I want this, but if I had to choose one, I’d go with the wealth tax (since I don’t see myself ever being close to that one).
 

porculator

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Hmm.. looks like there are a lot of mechanics to work out and understand. Not sure if this is a good idea or not. obviously a lot of wealth generation is undertaxed on the federal level. Property taxes take care of some of it, but a lot of that is likely well undervalued. But not all net worth is liquid.
Imagine the headaches people deal with for real estate appraisals, and then apply it to everything they own. In Gayle Benson's case they'd have to appraise the Saints and Pelicans. Think about the shirtshow that would be.
 

Saint_Ward

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Imagine the headaches people deal with for real estate appraisals, and then apply it to everything they own. In Gayle Benson's case they'd have to appraise the Saints and Pelicans. Think about the shirtshow that would be.
They have to do it for dead estate taxes, but you can really avoid paying taxes on a lot of wealth even for estate taxes.

I see this concept as a way around that. But having to appraise things yearly, would be really tough to keep up with. At the same time, they have an army of accountants likely already doing this.

I'd rather just remove some of the tax shelters for the ultra wealthy.

But I see the problem this is likely trying to address.
 

WhoDatPhan78

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I think I’d prefer an incomxe tax that started at income over 100,000 at something like 33% and then scaled up to the 70% at 10 million. Whatever percentages were needed to make the numbers work. The important part is that no one should be taxed for income at or below what we’d consider “middle class”.

This wealth tax is just a one time tax right? So they pay it now, and never again? Would it be assessed every 20 years or something? Doesn’t seem like a reliable way to find the government.

The very small number of individuals subject to the tax makes problems like them renouncing citizenship and just living the rest of their lives abroad significant.
 

Saint_Ward

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I think I’d prefer an incomxe tax that started at income over 100,000 at something like 33% and then scaled up to the 70% at 10 million. Whatever percentages were needed to make the numbers work. The important part is that no one should be taxed for income at or below what we’d consider “middle class”.

This wealth tax is just a one time tax right? So they pay it now, and never again? Would it be assessed every 20 years or something? Doesn’t seem like a reliable way to find the government.

The very small number of individuals subject to the tax makes problems like them renouncing citizenship and just living the rest of their lives abroad significant.
Problem is that few of these wealthy people pay themselves a salary like that. It is investments, taxed much lower.
 

WhoDatPhan78

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Problem is that few of these wealthy people pay themselves a salary like that. It is investments, taxed much lower.
That could be changed if we were doing tax reform. We should raise the capital gains tax to be the same or near the income tax.

We could still have targeted incentives to encourage investment in areas where it would benefit the country. Quasi socialism I guess.
 

CoolBrees

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If proprietary ownership investments are included, which they presumably are, this would affect me personally. For easy math that is a tax of 1.5MM per 50MM of asset. If this is a tax, in which I can’t amortize, which again I presume it is, that is ALOT more cash than I have.

Yet I still would do it. That many trillion extra over 10 years is worth me having to source my tax burden- which I assuredly would have to do. I am fortunate to have a business that is success

It wasn’t successful without others though; not just my employees, but society -infrastructure I used, receiving my degrees from PULBIC EDUCATION (primary and secondary). My father retired Lt Col of 24 years in the Air Force. I didn’t build that alone, as President Obama would say.
 

Sabine

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The mindset that the super wealthy owe the rest of us a share of their wealth just because they're wealthy befuddles me.

I don't want or feel owed anything from them. I can reach my bootstraps
 

Saint_Ward

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The mindset that the super wealthy owe the rest of us a share of their wealth just because they're wealthy befuddles me.

I don't want or feel owed anything from them. I can reach my bootstraps
I think of it more that the ultra wealthy can avoid paying the tax rate that even we pay, let alone their rate. The estate tax is supposed to take care of that in the long run, but you can shelter that wealth so easily.

And they don't owe me or you, they owe the government who enables their wealth creation.
 

CoolBrees

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Ward hit the nail on the head.

Yes, wealthy people absolutely owe society. You or me? Individually they owe us nothing. As a collective? You bet their sweet behind they do. Society doesn’t work without laborers, custodians and garbage collectors any more than it works without Hedge Fund Managers (bad example intended).

From the roads they use and the water they drink, to the military and police force that protect them, wealthy folks rely on the same societal systems we do everyday. Moreso, as a matter of fact.

When we were lucky enough to be born in this country, we all involuntarily signed a binding agreement with the rest of our society. We receive all the benefits and protections of being an American, but with that comes the sacrifices- paying taxes, following the laws, etc. - so I don’t look at it as punishing them or treating them unfairly for success. Rather, that the sacrifice should be proportional to everyone else’s.

Right now the burden isn’t proportional. Not close. And they have rigged the table to make it that way. Senator Warren’s proposal will be met with fierce opposition from those who it will affect. That, to me, shows she is on the right path.
 

dtc

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If proprietary ownership investments are included, which they presumably are, this would affect me personally. For easy math that is a tax of 1.5MM per 50MM of asset. If this is a tax, in which I can’t amortize, which again I presume it is, that is ALOT more cash than I have.

Yet I still would do it. That many trillion extra over 10 years is worth me having to source my tax burden- which I assuredly would have to do. I am fortunate to have a business that is success

It wasn’t successful without others though; not just my employees, but society -infrastructure I used, receiving my degrees from PULBIC EDUCATION (primary and secondary). My father retired Lt Col of 24 years in the Air Force. I didn’t build that alone, as President Obama would say.
It sounds like you're possibly equating her proposal of a tax on wealth to a tax on assets.

My understanding is that she wants to tax you on your net worth not the asset value. So, if you have 50mm in real estate or other holdings that are offset by 40mm in debt, then you'd pay the tax on the 10mm in equity not 50mm in nominal value.
 

superchuck500

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From the roads they use and the water they drink, to the military and police force that protect them, wealthy folks rely on the same societal systems we do everyday. Moreso, as a matter of fact.

This is an interesting aspect of it, and one that I heard talking about the other day on CNBC (the financial channel, and the guest was wealthy). He was making a point about how wealthy people use tax-funded structures and institutions more than low to modest income households.

He pointed to "some basic" examples to illustrate his point: people who fly in aircraft rely on federally-funded systems of air-traffic control, aircraft inspection, accident investigation, etc., whereas those who don't have enough money to fly do not. People with complicated investments across a securities, banking, and alternative investment landscape rely on federally-funded financial regulation and oversight. People with money also benefit from tax exemptions to a far greater degree than those without.

Obviously this is a simplification, and the reality is that wealthy people do pay a lot more in gross tax than low to modest incomes, even if the rates aren't equal. But that isn't simply because there is more for the government to take . . . there's a rationale.
 

Saint_Ward

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This is an interesting aspect of it, and one that I heard talking about the other day on CNBC (the financial channel, and the guest was wealthy). He was making a point about how wealthy people use tax-funded structures and institutions more than low to modest income households.

He pointed to "some basic" examples to illustrate his point: people who fly in aircraft rely on federally-funded systems of air-traffic control, aircraft inspection, accident investigation, etc., whereas those who don't have enough money to fly do not. People with complicated investments across a securities, banking, and alternative investment landscape rely on federally-funded financial regulation and oversight. People with money also benefit from tax exemptions to a far greater degree than those without.

Obviously this is a simplification, and the reality is that wealthy people do pay a lot more in gross tax than low to modest incomes, even if the rates aren't equal. But that isn't simply because there is more for the government to take . . . there's a rationale.
My Uncle, before he passed, went from being a Farmer to buying some construction equipment to fix up his farm, to having a full blown construction company in Puerto Rico.

He'd fly around the Island in a Helicopter to check out all of his sites. Often, without notice, to check up on his people and the projects. He was very giving, but also knew not to fully trust anyone. It didn't matter that he was 50 miles away, he'd be there in 30 minutes to an hour at any time.

He wasn't "wealthy", but rich enough that he sure did use that ATC system a lot more than I ever have.
 

DCSaints_Fan

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The mindset that the super wealthy owe the rest of us a share of their wealth just because they're wealthy befuddles me.

I don't want or feel owed anything from them. I can reach my bootstraps
I think a wealth tax/property tax is more philosophically justified than an income tax.

Part of the function of government is to protect property from both internal and external threats. Sort of like a form of insurance.

It makes sense to be assessed a % of your wealth, not your income, because government doesn't exist to protect income.
 

Saint_Ward

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Yeah. It’s called property taxes.
Which do not go to the federal government.

The local government doesn't use military to protect you.

Also, property taxes are based on the value of your home, but a lagging value. If property values go nuts, usually the assessed property value is well behind.

I'd imagine it's more so when you're ultra wealthy. Also, land/homes aren't the only assets that count as "property".
 

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