Well, It's Time... (The Wall) (1 Viewer)

WhoDatPhan78

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What happens to the 100's that are crossing under or over the wall knowing they will be caught? I read somewhere that some are doing this just to get sent back home.
Where did you read that?

The people who want to get caught generally intend to apply for asylum. Some of them are dehydrated and want to get caught to avoid dying, but most want to apply for asylum,

It’s not logical for a non Mexican to turn themselves in hoping for a free plane ride home. It doesn’t really work that way.
 

mt15

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Need a little more info to know what you’re talking about.
 

Saint_Ward

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I will give them this point. A somewhat deeper wall will fix this type of tunneling.

1547824634249.png
 

Saint_Ward

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NPR had a great interview this morning talking about the history of Immigration reform and how close G W Bush was to getting it, but then 9/11 happened and it changed the conversation to National Security.

It was quite a comprehensive plan. When the interview posts, I'll try to add it.
 

UriUT

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I will give them this point. A somewhat deeper wall will fix this type of tunneling.

1547824634249.png
Then they will dig a bit deeper. Make it 10 feet. They will dig 13 feet. 20'? 23' deep hole. You can't stop desperate people with a will. You shoot them dead or you solve what caused their desperation.

I wonder sometimes why we by proxy the Israelis shoot down a $100 drone using a multi-million dollar patriot missile.
 

DavidM

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Then they will dig a bit deeper. Make it 10 feet. They will dig 13 feet. 20'? 23' deep hole. You can't stop desperate people with a will. You shoot them dead or you solve what caused their desperation.

I wonder sometimes why we by proxy the Israelis shoot down a $100 drone using a multi-million dollar patriot missile.
Agreed. Of course we can build better, taller, deeper, thicker walls. We can monitor them more extensively. We could station more agents along the border. We could patrol more closely and thoroughly from the air. On and on.

The key questions are - at what cost? and are the problems significant enough to justify those costs?
 

DaveXA

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Then they will dig a bit deeper. Make it 10 feet. They will dig 13 feet. 20'? 23' deep hole. You can't stop desperate people with a will. You shoot them dead or you solve what caused their desperation.

I wonder sometimes why we by proxy the Israelis shoot down a $100 drone using a multi-million dollar patriot missile.
While they probably would dig deeper, it wouldn't be as feasible. The deeper you dig, the more dangerous and expensive it becomes to do so. At some point it becomes more feasible to explore other options than digging a tunnel. I don't necessarily think a wall across the entire border is needed, but it could be useful across some areas. There already are natural barriers and fences across the border, so simply upgrading areas that most need it seems more prudent than walling off the entire border.

What really needs to happen more than building a wall is reforming the existing immigration laws and resolving the legal status of those in limbo who have been productive and law abiding residents for the past 10 years or so.
 

UriUT

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While they probably would dig deeper, it wouldn't be as feasible. The deeper you dig, the more dangerous and expensive it becomes to do so. At some point it becomes more feasible to explore other options than digging a tunnel. I don't necessarily think a wall across the entire border is needed, but it could be useful across some areas. There already are natural barriers and fences across the border, so simply upgrading areas that most need it seems more prudent than walling off the entire border.

What really needs to happen more than building a wall is reforming the existing immigration laws and resolving the legal status of those in limbo who have been productive and law abiding residents for the past 10 years or so.
Yeah, it'll be more difficult for them to dig deeper....but so will it cost us; maybe even more so because we have to put a big slab deeper. I get the diminishing returns you're implying for the migrants, but ours is much more. Really why are we even talking about this. We're not suppose to be even discussing about "we're paying for it" when Mexico was. Are his base this stupid? The cost is much worse than the 5.7 billion that will be spent only this year! What happens next year? Another hostage taking with guns to our heads?
 

insidejob

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I will give them this point. A somewhat deeper wall will fix this type of tunneling.

1547824634249.png
One of the MSNBC correspondents who's been working the border since the zero tolerance policy started caging people and separating families was taken on a guided trip through one of the tunnels near San Diego. It aired yesterday. At one point, the tunnel was over 500 feet beneath the surface. The ladder they used to climb down into the tunnel was over fifty feet long (I think the ladder was 21 steps, IIRC). You'd basically have to build two walls to prevent tunneling. One above and one below ground. No way would Congress ever give Trump $50 billion (since the estimate for his wall, last I heard, is $25 billion - before flaws and construction problems arise). Especially since he hasn't bothered to use more than 60% of the funds allocated to him in the last go round of border protection funding.
 

Saint_Ward

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One of the MSNBC correspondents who's been working the border since the zero tolerance policy started caging people and separating families was taken on a guided trip through one of the tunnels near San Diego. It aired yesterday. At one point, the tunnel was over 500 feet beneath the surface. The ladder they used to climb down into the tunnel was over fifty feet long (I think the ladder was 21 steps, IIRC). You'd basically have to build two walls to prevent tunneling. One above and one below ground. No way would Congress ever give Trump $50 billion (since the estimate for his wall, last I heard, is $25 billion - before flaws and construction problems arise). Especially since he hasn't bothered to use more than 60% of the funds allocated to him in the last go round of border protection funding.
Yeah, those tunnels are the real problem. Those are also likely major drug points of entry.
 

Goatman Saint

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One of the MSNBC correspondents who's been working the border since the zero tolerance policy started caging people and separating families was taken on a guided trip through one of the tunnels near San Diego. It aired yesterday. At one point, the tunnel was over 500 feet beneath the surface. The ladder they used to climb down into the tunnel was over fifty feet long (I think the ladder was 21 steps, IIRC). You'd basically have to build two walls to prevent tunneling. One above and one below ground. No way would Congress ever give Trump $50 billion (since the estimate for his wall, last I heard, is $25 billion - before flaws and construction problems arise). Especially since he hasn't bothered to use more than 60% of the funds allocated to him in the last go round of border protection funding.
And of course another 25-50 billion over the next 15 years for maintenance. But that’s always left off of the discussions
 

insidejob

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Yeah, those tunnels are the real problem. Those are also likely major drug points of entry.
The CBP agent taking him through the tunnel said that for every tunnel they find and close, another two are already under construction. He said they're building the tunnels at a ridiculous pace because they're using slave labor from residents of border towns who they'd just murder if they don't agree to building the tunnels. So they basically have unlimited manpower to dig these tunnels and it isn't going to stop just because some new kind of barrier goes up.

ETA: He did say that the tunnel they were using for the spot was "the granddaddy of tunnels" compared to the majority they find. This one had lights going the whole length and had spots with tracks for carts to roll on to move hundreds of pounds at a time of whatever they want. Apparently the tracks are initially built to get the dirt back out on the Mexican side of the border so they can build quicker but they use them gong the other way once it's complete. They move dirt out in 50 pound bags. I'd drop dead from lower back pain in about twenty minutes if I had to carry 50 pound bags of dirt out of a tunnel, which they do in the majority of them which aren't nearly as big since they don't have tracks.
 

UriUT

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He sat at a briefing where the border patrol told him tunnels were used to bypass walls. We all know this fight isn't about the efficacy of walls. He won't change his mind because he cannot stand to "lose". It's mitch and those few senators and repubs representatives that this fight is really about. They're waiting for that 90% repub support to fall before they act. Cowardice by supposed "leaders". Trapped by their own machination to win elections. Therefore we're hostage to a minority group.
 

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