Westhoff believes that Taysom Hill will be the Saints’ starting quarterback (1 Viewer)

[sammymvpknight]

I mean I don't think Josh Allen is good, so I'm not giving him much credit. Was just saying that he did throw for 3k yards in college.

My impression of Taysom is basically because in his actual QB run in preseason, he looks like the same guy that scrambled all over the field against Texas twice, which is a running QB that's given a simplified offense with a decision tree that looks like (First Read) -> (Possible check to RB) -> (Run).

He threw about 30 completions this preseason that I could find. Of those 30 completions, once - once - he hit his second read. I realize that he makes flash plays which are exciting and leads to wanting to project optimism onto him. But if you watch him, really watch him, when he gets to actually play QB, you'll see that he's essentially the same player.

I just don't see any reason to believe that at 29 years old, he's going to change from the same player he's been since 2012 when he arrived at BYU. Legitimate question - what have you seen that leads you to believe that he has what it takes to run a full NFL offense? We know Drew can, we know Teddy can. All we've seen from Taysom is some wildcat plays and some underthrown trick plays.

Now if you want to say that Payton might simplify an offense down to a 1 read passing game with RPO components, then that might be something. But I don't see that happening because I suspect Sean, like me, believes that's not a winning offense in today's NFL.

I think that you are PROBABLY right. I'm a very, "I'll see it when I believe it" type of guy. But in the back of my mind I can't help but to think that Taysom Hill is a gifted football player. He has figured out how to be a special teams ace and a tight end in short order. Everyone behind the scenes is saying that Taysom Hill is improving as a QB. So I'm inclined to believe that he's probably capable of being pretty good at his natural position. Granted, he's not going to be slinging the ball around like Brees in his prime. But he can probably be functional in a RPO, conservative offense. He's much more talented than Tim Tebow, who had some immediate success at the position. Brees has to fall off a cliff in the next two seasons, and Taysom Hill's limitations MIGHT be better.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I think that you are PROBABLY right. I'm a very, "I'll see it when I believe it" type of guy. But in the back of my mind I can't help but to think that Taysom Hill is a gifted football player. He has figured out how to be a special teams ace and a tight end in short order. Everyone behind the scenes is saying that Taysom Hill is improving as a QB. So I'm inclined to believe that he's probably capable of being pretty good at his natural position. Granted, he's not going to be slinging the ball around like Brees in his prime. But he can probably be functional in a RPO, conservative offense. He's much more talented than Tim Tebow, who had some immediate success at the position. Brees has to fall off a cliff in the next two seasons, and Taysom Hill's limitations MIGHT be better.

Fair enough. And I think I agree that Taysom is more talented (at least for the NFL) than Tebow. I've just become immune to offseason hype. Onome Ojo was the next Michael Irvin. Coaches hype players. The staff loves Taysom Hill, and loves to talk him up. He's a good story and a guy that's fun to like. I guess I just see the "he's the next Steve Young!" as Payton talking up one of his favorite players, as coaches are prone to do, and not a serious diagnosis of Hill's talent.

I mean the guy will be 30 next season. And like you said in another post, we're getting another year of Brees. So do you think Payton is lining everything up to start a 31 year old running QB in 2021, when history has proven over and over that QBs that rely on their legs hit a wall at age 30?

 

[Yatman]

What's a Westhoff?

Never heard of him.

 

[Spylake]

Taysom probably has a stronger arm. But Jackson has demonstrated pretty good accuracy and touch. We have no idea what Taysom could do as a passer other than hurl the ball downfield on pretty simple plays. But there is no denying that his ability to run and his arm strength opens up the offense. If you took away Lamar Jackson's running ability, I'm still not convinced that he's an NFL QB...but like Taysom, you can't discard his running ability and how much it opens up the rest of his game.

I agree you have to package Lamar and Taysom as a whole. There is no doubt that their ability to stab you in the heart with their legs makes them better passers. But, isn't that the whole reason running QB's are on coaches minds right now?

There is this story line that always follows Taysom hill and it goes something like "He would not last 1/2 a season as a starter before he gets injured"

I disagree. we may not like it but the NFL keeps expanding the QB protection envelope. It may be why more coaches are open to a running QB. I'm also curious why the same objection is rarely applied to Lamar.

 

[Spylake]

Never heard of him.

Some think he was the best special teams coach ever. He might also be biased toward TH as he is the one who gave him the ST opportunity that stated the Swiss Army Knife legend.

 

[Loose Cannon]

He might also be biased toward TH

The coach who basically shaped Taysom Hill into the player he is today - BIASED?!

 

[Spylake]

You're giving Josh Allen way too much credit. We don't know where Taysom Hill is at as a QB right now. Payton seems to like him...so I'm not ready to say that he's a one read QB who lacks football IQ quite yet.

I think from his past comments Loose Cannon has issues with Taysom's religious faith.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I think from his past comments Loose Cannon has issues with Taysom's religious faith.

LMAO nobody is buying this victim complex nonsense you're trying to throw out that I hate Mormons. I've been a member here for almost 20 years. I've met hundreds of people that post here. I spent time with people here right after Katrina raising money for recovery. We organized airplanes and flyers in 2006 to get the "Save Our Saints" message out. Everyone here knows who I am. You, on the other hand, are a one trick pony with an agenda whose been here for six months doing nothing but hyping one player and tearing another down. And based on your post history, you're more than likely a racist.

I don't hate Mormons. You know what I hate? Stupid people.

PS: my wife is now a non-denom Christian who was raised Mormon, and her entire family is Mormon. So your assertion that I hate Mormons is almost as stupid as your football posts. My favorite part of Christmas is that I can bring a good bottle of booze to her family's white elephant exchange knowing that I'll always get it back.

 

[neurotik]

I think that you are PROBABLY right. I'm a very, "I'll see it when I believe it" type of guy. But in the back of my mind I can't help but to think that Taysom Hill is a gifted football player. He has figured out how to be a special teams ace and a tight end in short order. Everyone behind the scenes is saying that Taysom Hill is improving as a QB. So I'm inclined to believe that he's probably capable of being pretty good at his natural position. Granted, he's not going to be slinging the ball around like Brees in his prime. But he can probably be functional in a RPO, conservative offense. He's much more talented than Tim Tebow, who had some immediate success at the position. Brees has to fall off a cliff in the next two seasons, and Taysom Hill's limitations MIGHT be better.

From what I've seen of him in the RPO, he doesn't read the defense well enough. He keeps the ball too often. I could be wrong though because that is just eye test and one play last year where Kamara had a TD if he got the ball - the hole was that big and Hill didn't see it.

 

[WxM]

Yes, a person who thinks that a guy who never threw for more than 3,000 yards in college, went undrafted and has never started an NFL game is a valid comparison to a Heisman winning QB and NFL MVP is definitely someone we should take seriously enough to start a new thread about.

Good thinking Spylake. This is definitely a thread that's bound to create new conversation that hasn't taken place in numerous other threads. You've really added value to the board. Please keep the quality content coming.

I get that you're tired of these discussions. But the opinion of a former Saints assistant coach is newsworthy and relevant. So thank you, OP, for adding to the discussion. I probably wouldn't have discovered this otherwise.

 

[KCWhoDat]

hmmm.....

 

[guillermo]

Yes, a person who thinks that a guy who never threw for more than 3,000 yards in college, went undrafted and has never started an NFL game is a valid comparison to a Heisman winning QB and NFL MVP is definitely someone we should take seriously enough to start a new thread about.

Good thinking Spylake. This is definitely a thread that's bound to create new conversation that hasn't taken place in numerous other threads. You've really added value to the board. Please keep the quality content coming.

Last time I read, you are a guest here. You are not here to judge what adds value to the conversations or not. We have mods to do that.

And by the way, every person has their own opinions, but certainly I will trust more the opinion of a guy who had a long career as an NFL coach, and that has worked directly with coach Payton and with Taysom Hill then any of us, simple members of a discussion board.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Last time I read, you are a guest here. You are not here to judge what adds value to the conversations or not. We have mods to do that.

And by the way, every person has their own opinions, but certainly I will trust more the opinion of a guy who had a long career as an NFL coach, and that has worked directly with coach Payton and with Taysom Hill then any of us, simple members of a discussion board.

You're right - saying that Taysom Hill is better than LITERALLY THE BEST PLAYER IN FOOTBALL is a totally reasonable take and Joe Westhoff, a special teams coach, is a brilliant quarterback talent evaluator.

 

[demented]

The key difference here is that Taysom is 29 and Lamar is not. Taysom couldn't hold up under the workload that Lamar is taking. He's much much older and has a host of previous injuries to be wary of. Also Taysom is a completely different runner than Lamar which is even more concerning. Lamar runs like a scat back and can juke passed people. Taysom runs like a really really really fast fullback. I don't see any quick twitchy lateral motion from Taysom which is needed to get around open defenders and fall forward.

 

[Derek_B]

Yes, a person who thinks that a guy who never threw for more than 3,000 yards in college, went undrafted and has never started an NFL game is a valid comparison to a Heisman winning QB and NFL MVP is definitely someone we should take seriously enough to start a new thread about.

Good thinking Spylake. This is definitely a thread that's bound to create new conversation that hasn't taken place in numerous other threads. You've really added value to the board. Please keep the quality content coming.

No need to attack someone because they post something positive about a player you hate.
Can you crawl back into whatever hole you went into after your boyfriend Vince Young failed so miserably that you had to go into hiding? For those of you that don't know, this "Loose Canon" guy used to proclaim Vince Young as the next goat.
Anyone who would try break it to him, that VY was hot garbage, would get his infamous "Watch more football" line.

bottom line, Loose cannon accuses of other people being "too emotional" when other people talk about Taysom vs Teddy. But clearly he is the emotional one. I think the opinion of a FORMER coach of Taysom Hill (who still has direct connections with the team and coaches) has more weight than some couch wanna be coach like yourself. Watch more football.