What happened to going deep? (1 Viewer)

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

I believe Saints should use more of Ingram and Kamara at the same time. Kamara usually is running routes under 10 yards but I would like to see him have opportunities to run deeper routes and see if it is successful. Does not hurt to try it a few times now while preparing for the playoffs. I also like that one play that Kamara took a direct snap from the center, he almost broke it except for Kuechly.

Kamara was behind the defense last night on a play and was under thrown for an incompletion.

We can list a whole bunch of reasons why we aren't going deep that are absolutely part of the truth, but the part not many are saying has to do with our QB's arm strength. Unless Drew can crow-hop into his throw, he's not throwing the ball past 30 yards anymore. If we do have a clean pocket that he can step into the throw, he seems to be late on the throw , again, allowing the defender to re-enter the play for the tackle or incompletion.

I think it's okay to say this without getting a bunch of flack for saying it. I'm not saying anything negative about Drew, I'm simply pointing out part of the reason we aren't going deep these days.

 

[Saintsfan8989]

Any chance of Meredith returning this season?

 

[DeucesLoose]

I’m just wondering what happen to giving Ingram more carries ...

 

[riot1013]

It might be part of the story.

Even before Armstead went out we were not going deep/vertical very much.

And a more of the throws look wobbly and seem to hang in the air longer than they should. With the way defenses are playing, they are already smothering receivers and with Drew seemingly throwing a little softer at times the defender has time to close.

I don't know. I just know I've been watching Brees since 2006, every game. And for the first time you see more throws in a long stretch of games that look wobbly and a bit late.

That said, he's still going to be strong enough to do everything we need to do if we get the protection solidified and possibly get Ginn back in the mix to be accounted for deep.

The throw to TQS that broke the record went 45 yards in the air, so getting it down the field isn't the issue. The issue is when you have slower receivers they rely on route movement to create downfield separation....that takes time. Couple that with the health at O-line and the fact that many teams have played with safeties high and there is just nothing there to go long with, not with one reliable receiver. Ultimately what you are seeing is the perfect storm of lack of talent in the receiving corps manifesting into other issues in the overall offensive execution. When the receivers begin to get open (and make plays) underneath the deep routes will open up.

Think about it this way: Even if Brees had the arm of Mahomes or Luck (which he never did anyways) we still would have limited success in the deep game due to the current short comings of the younger receivers.

 

[SDotJeezy]

The throw to TQS that broke the record went 45 yards in the air, so getting it down the field isn't the issue. The issue is when you have slower receivers they rely on route movement to create downfield separation....that takes time. Couple that with the health at O-line and the fact that many teams have played with safeties high and there is just nothing there to go long with, not with one reliable receiver. Ultimately what you are seeing is the perfect storm of lack of talent in the receiving corps manifesting into other issues in the overall offensive execution. When the receivers begin to get open (and make plays) underneath the deep routes will open up.

Think about it this way: Even if Brees had the arm of Mahomes or Luck (which he never did anyways) we still would have limited success in the deep game due to the current short comings of the younger receivers.

It went 26 yards downfield...I'm not going to pad the stat with how many yards behind the LOS he was



Everyone wants to blame the receivers...It ain't the receivers, our QB has only completed 1 pass this season beyond 30 yards downfield....1

 

[riot1013]

It went 26 yards downfield...I'm not going to pad the stat with how many yards behind the LOS he was



Everyone wants to blame the receivers...It ain't the receivers, our QB has only completed 1 pass this season beyond 30 yards downfield....1

I'm speaking purely of how far the ball traveled. The ball traveled 45 yards in the air...end of story. That's not a short throw.

If you want to blame Brees and that makes you feel better about yourself then fine, do what you want. The biggest part of the problem is the lack of separation from the receivers. A QB is not going to throw deep in hopes that the receiver gets open, the receiver has to be open or coming open when that decision is being made.

 

[SDotJeezy]

Its not a deep throw by NFL standards...everyone should be able to make that throw. It doesn't matter what number we try to assign to how far it went to church it up...at the end of the day...26 yards.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

^ Y'all are arguing semantics.

It's not hard to notice Brees isn't throwing the ball as far, with as much velocity or even on time anymore on deep throws. On the balls he is getting out there 25-35 yards, he's not driving the ball, it's more of a touch pass. Brees didn't ever have a strong arm, but it was strong enough that he was throwing darts. I don't need charts, lists or analytics to tell me that. I watch every snap we play and the lack of success of the deep ball this year is due to a lot of things, not excluding Drew's arm strength.

 

[Pa.Saint]

I like the extended offensive drives, wear down the opponent "D", keep their "O" off the field

 

[SDotJeezy]

Bruh, you can't blame receivers for lack of separation when you're only running < 25 yd route combos. The reason why its harder to score in the redzone is because defenders have less greenspace to defend. When you show a tendency to artificially put yourself in a redzone by running shorter routes, defenses adjust by compressing down and playing a redzone type defense against you. Can't separate in a crowded field. Carolina played their linebackers consistently at a 7-10 yd depth and kept their safeties under 20 yds...that's why we can't get open.

 

[SAINTSFAN]

Bruh, you can't blame receivers for lack of separation when you're only running < 25 yd route combos. The reason why its harder to score in the redzone is because defenders have less greenspace to defend. When you show a tendency to artificially put yourself in a redzone by running shorter routes, defenses adjust by compressing down and playing a redzone type defense against you. Can't separate in a crowded field. Carolina played their linebackers consistently at a 7-10 yd depth and kept their safeties under 20 yds...that's why we can't get open.

Are you always this argumentative? It seems every thread I open, you are arguing with everyone who posts about any topic. You seem angry.

 

[riot1013]

Its not a deep throw by NFL standards...everyone should be able to make that throw. It doesn't matter what number we try to assign to how far it went to church it up...at the end of the day...26 yards.

That graphic says zero about arm strength. Arm strength was mentioned, I gave an example of him dropping a pass to a receiver 45 yards away. Has he thrown one further this year? Probably. That was the first example I thought of.

Likewise, if you really think that the receivers are not part of the problem, you need to go watch some games...they are not getting separated from the defender in time for a throw to be made.

 

[CHI-TOWNSAINT]

^ Brees has never needed the WR to create space to throw to a good match-up, including deep throws. I don't think that argument holds water.

 

[SDotJeezy]

Are you always this argumentative? It seems every thread I open, you are arguing with everyone who posts about any topic. You seem angry.

I don't see anger...someone has a point that i don't agree with, I say something. Constructive discussion i call it...probably not the right word. Maybe yesterday i was tired of the headhunting complaints but that's about it.

 

[SDotJeezy]

Bruh, you can't blame receivers for lack of separation when you're only running < 25 yd route combos. The reason why its harder to score in the redzone is because defenders have less greenspace to defend. When you show a tendency to artificially put yourself in a redzone by running shorter routes, defenses adjust by compressing down and playing a redzone type defense against you. Can't separate in a crowded field. Carolina played their linebackers consistently at a 7-10 yd depth and kept their safeties under 20 yds...that's why we can't get open.

That graphic says zero about arm strength. Arm strength was mentioned, I gave an example of him dropping a pass to a receiver 45 yards away. Has he thrown one further this year? Probably. That was the first example I thought of.

Likewise, if you really think that the receivers are not part of the problem, you need to go watch some games...they are not getting separated from the defender in time for a throw to be made.

Bruh, read my last post on why we're not getting "separation" included for your reference.

You're right, that graphic alone doesn't say much about arm strength but what if I showed you 13 more graphs from this season where nothing went beyond 25 yards? What would you say about that?

Edit: Maybe this is all some sort of Jedi mind trick CSP is playing w/ the rest of the league to get them to cheat up in the playoffs so we can gash them deep...maybe it isn't, but the fact remains that we are not pushing the ball down the field enough to put the WRs in position to get separation.