What I see (mostly) defensively 8 weeks in (1 Viewer)

[Slidell Mike]

Let's hope Rankins fits into the top tier. But, through seven weeks, we have nothing to go from a pro-level. Too early to anoint him top tier. I think Robertson is a major player but he is playing out of position right now. And, if Kikaha can overcome his knee injuries, he is top tier - one of the only legit difference makers on D.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

Let's hope Rankins fits into the top tier. But, through seven weeks, we have nothing to go from a pro-level. Too early to anoint him top tier. I think Robertson is a major player but he is playing out of position right now. And, if Kikaha can overcome his knee injuries, he is top tier - one of the only legit difference makers on D.

Rankins had three plays in Pre-Season along with Quotes from Mike D, SP, and two of the WWL guys that have me thinking he's the real deal.


#1 He had a play where he showed his range as a DT by shutting down a screen for roughly 5 or 6 yards when had it not been for him it was going for 20 easily.

#2 He had a play where he beat the Guard to the outside shoulder quickly and would have mashed the QB had he not gotten rid of the ball.

#3 The interception of Tom Brady


Heres a Zeke quote

And then there is rookie Sheldon Rankins. My people, I’m telling you - the other day when I was breaking down sound, I did not realize which audio file I had pulled up. I began to listen and thought to myself, "man this veteran player is money, right on and to the point." However it was no veteran I heard, it was first round draft pick Sheldon Rankins.

Seeming wise beyond his years, Rankins comes to the Saints in desperate need of the strong play he displayed for the University of Louisville. To me, the fastest way to becoming a leader is by making plays on the field. I’d be very surprised and somewhat disappointed if this touted rookie does not make an immediate impact.

WWL - AM870 | FM105.3 | News | Talk | Sports - Deke: Rising Leaders In Saints' Defensive Turnaround

There is SP saying "We know what kind of player we are getting when he returns as well as guys like Cam Jordan touting him throught the pre-season.


Look i know guys love Kikaha and saw the splash plays but I can't emphasize the point more that #1 he was playing a friendly position early in the season at SAM LB in an under front (credit him for forcing fumbles though) and #2 he's coming of 3 ACL injuries. Asking him to be more than a role player taking so many snaps a game would be putting too much wear and tear on his knees.

If he worked his way back into starter form fine...but he'd be no better than a role player(3rd down specialist). Asking him to play starter snaps (40+) a game/Hold against LT's in run defense just seems ill-advised. It's my personal opinion but it's rooted in logic whether agreed with or not.


Robertson IMHO is a role player...sub package player. His inability to get off blocks shows up quite often as well as his propensity to have his tackle attempts slipped. His slow speed shows up in Man coverage on backs as thats been a problem. He doesn't have the size or wheels that Ellerbe has but he's a good package player and heady LB but If I had to choose between a perfectly healthy Ellerbe at WLB and a High FB IQ Anthony at MLB both would start over Robertson. Fact!

 

[Slidell Mike]

Rankins had three plays in Pre-Season along with Quotes from Mike D, SP, and two of the WWL guys that have me thinking he's the real deal.


#1 He had a play where he showed his range as a DT by shutting down a screen for roughly 5 or 6 yards when had it not been for him it was going for 20 easily.

#2 He had a play where he beat the Guard to the outside shoulder quickly and would have mashed the QB had he not gotten rid of the ball.

#3 The interception of Tom Brady


Heres a Zeke quote



WWL - AM870 | FM105.3 | News | Talk | Sports - Deke: Rising Leaders In Saints' Defensive Turnaround

There is SP saying "We know what kind of player we are getting when he returns as well as guys like Cam Jordan touting him throught the pre-season.


Look i know guys love Kikaha and saw the splash plays but I can't emphasize the point more that #1 he was playing a friendly position early in the season at SAM LB in an under front (credit him for forcing fumbles though) and #2 he's coming of 3 ACL injuries. Asking him to be more than a role player taking so many snaps a game would be putting too much wear and tear on his knees.

If he worked his way back into starter form fine...but he'd be no better than a role player(3rd down specialist). Asking him to play starter snaps (40+) a game/Hold against LT's in run defense just seems ill-advised. It's my personal opinion but it's rooted in logic whether agreed with or not.


Robertson IMHO is a role player...sub package player. His inability to get off blocks shows up quite often as well as his propensity to have his tackle attempts slipped. His slow speed shows up in Man coverage on backs as thats been a problem. He doesn't have the size or wheels that Ellerbe has but he's a good package player and heady LB but If I had to choose between a perfectly healthy Ellerbe at WLB and a High FB IQ Anthony at MLB both would start over Robertson. Fact!

I don't disagree with you on what Rankins could be, just need to see live action to really see how well he can perform when the opposing team is actually game planning. His athleticism and burst look promising, but I'll take a wait and see.

With Kikaha, it all depends on his knees. Even after the scheme change last year and the drop in snaps, he still was making game changing plays. If his knee problems are chronic, then, yes, maybe his a 3rd down rush specialist. But, I thought he did a very good job setting the edge in early downs before the scheme change.

As for Robertson, no he's not Ellerbe athletically, but I don't think he's as big a step down and he can stay on the field. Again, the middle is not the best spot for him. I really don't understand what's up with Anthony. I liked what he showed in the middle last year. I didn't think the Lauranitis move made much sense. Hopefully, he can get back in good graces and show he deserves another shot in the middle and move Robertson back to weak. Ellerbe is glass and cannot be counted on. Unfortunately, a perfectly healthy Ellerbe is a pipe dream...

 

[SuperSaint]

You wonder what this defense would be now with a healthy Kikaha, Rankins, and Breaux...

Every team deals with injuries, but we've been hit harder than most.

 

[honeybadger]

Very good list and I agree with everyone listed.

No mention of Fairley- ???
No mention of Jenkins - Smart
No mention of Byrd- Smart

Fairley has been a beast! Excluding that one penalty but whatever.

 

[insidejob]

Not many guys have been able to come back from three ACLs. Don't think it would be smart to count on him. Don't give up on him, but don't expect anything either.

Isn't this really only the second injury but third surgery? I thought that the second surgery was to clean up something that wasn't done right the first time around.

And didn't Payton go out of his way to say that the doctors said that he should be able to come back from this 100% because something about this injury, although to the same ACL, is different from the previous injury? I remember he said something along those lines after the surgery because he's usually so tight-lipped about any injury details.

 

[crawfish2010]

if we had one or both out of breaux/rankins for the first 6 games, i think we'd be 4-2 at worst. possibly 5-1.

they need to start looking at trainers for the pelicans and saints. i know some or fluke injuries (williams concussion being as bad as it was/broken legs for breaux and rankins) but having 2 of the most injured teams in 2 different sports being run by some of the same people, little coincidental right?

If my sister had a penis she'd be my brother.

Call down a little bit bro. Breaux was very good as a rookie . However, he played 16 games last season and the Saints had the worst pass defense in the history of the NFL. Additionally Breaux, allowed 10 TDs--which was the worst in the NFL. Seattle as a team only gave up 14 passing TDS.
Rankins has never played a down in the NFL--we don't know who he is. He might be Warren Sapp.....or he might be Sedrick Ellis

 

[guillermo]

I think after week 7 these are your guys to build that defense around.


Cameron Jordan -LDE
Kenny Vaccaro - SS
Vonn Bell - FS
Sheldon Rankins - DT
Delvin Breaux - CB

I think the Middle Tier/Support guys are

Tyeler Davison - NT
David Onyemata - DT
PJ Williams - CB
Sterling Moore - CB


I think these guys are good quality depth to have

Robertson - LB
Stupar - LB
Crawley - CB
BW Webb - CB
Darryl Tap - DE

I think the biggest Wild Cards in this entire thing are

Stephone Anthony - MLB
Hau'oli Kikaha - DE
Erik Harris - FS/SS


What are we missing?

A #2 CB
A rangy WLB
A RDE


Reading an article on Landon Collins and they mentioned how the play of the top 3 CB's has allowed him to play closer to the LOS and show off his range/tackling sklls. That which I think Vaccaro has but it's the plays where he's having to cover the slot WR or TE because nobody else can is where he goes unnoticed and his "box stats" suffer. He's quickly becoming one of the Leaders on that D and while I'm not sure he deserves a top S contract...he is a keeper that we should not let escape.


Part of the issue with the D has been talent/depth the last few years but as you can see we are starting to build that up. There are however some key components missing.


CB's not being on the same page due to youth is something bring a veteran CB in can help with.

3man rotation at DE with a Nickel passrusher is key, while also having that veteran backup (tapp) This is why Kikaha is a big deal here. I'd be looking to draft a DE with some size/run stuffing skills here and also work Kikaha back in. How he's coming a long would determine if I kept Edebali or not.

The 3man rotation at DT is rather solid. Not sure about Fairley next year but It would have to be team friendly. His propensity to play undisciplined can get us in trouble from time to time.

Finally the LB position has to be addressed which makes Anthony the other big wild card. His presence alone would make him the fastest biggest LB on the roster but its getting him going the right direction we've had trouble with.

We lack a WLB also which is another role Vaccaro has had to play at times which again takes him out of the play depending on the responsibility. Again his stats suffer. However, that position become less important if you can get Anthony on the field.



We have the money to address some key spots and the offense is still humming with a young core at the skill positions. Next Year is the year easily but we've got to play chess and plan out these moves. The margin for error is small. We can't go doling out huge contracts and we have to look for role pieces in FA. I'd look to fill in CB and the G position and maybe the LB position in FA while nabbing a T/DE in the draft. Depending on the strength of it. It appears to be a deep DE class next year similar to the DT class and we should be able to come out with a solid guy. Having a legit threat at RDE could take this defense to a legit level.

Add a RB like McCaffrey at some point and we'll were back in the hunt and a very talented deep team with the Core guys in place.


Were not far off....but it's not happening this year.


My apologies for the rant/structure. In between studying for my A+ exam and typing random thoughts.



Regards,

We have had this conversation before, and Ellerbe has frustrated me by showing what a difference a sideline to sideline linebacker would make for our defence. I would love to see a basic defence with Ellerbe and Robertson flanking Anthony. When drafted, I thought that Anthony would be able to handle the SAM position, but now I think his best position is MIKE, but with support.

And from this I come to role players. If there is a moot point now of disagreement that I have with Dennis Allen this season is keeping Mike Harris on the sideline. He made his money in Canada on coverage for what would be a WILL-SS position, isolated playing zone outside of the line of scrimmage. I hope we give him a chance next year to play that position with us in passing situations.

We may hope that Kikaha is a good situational blitzed, but that won't fix our defence. It is time to face that we need to recruit two starting defensive ends next years. That may sound to you like a lack of confidence on Jordan, but it is the opposite. The best moments in Cam's career is when he is moving all over the defensive line, getting pressure from the outside, from the inside, even behind the line of scrimmage. If he have depth to make Cam a "joker" kind of player, then we will be able to fix our lack of pressure on the quarterback.

A lot of this is secondary, of course, until we have a unit that is quick in reacting and sure at tackling, something we have missed for a long time now.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

We have had this conversation before, and Ellerbe has frustrated me by showing what a difference a sideline to sideline linebacker would make for our defence. I would love to see a basic defence with Ellerbe and Robertson flanking Anthony. When drafted, I thought that Anthony would be able to handle the SAM position, but now I think his best position is MIKE, but with support.

And from this I come to role players. If there is a moot point now of disagreement that I have with Dennis Allen this season is keeping Mike Harris on the sideline. He made his money in Canada on coverage for what would be a WILL-SS position, isolated playing zone outside of the line of scrimmage. I hope we give him a chance next year to play that position with us in passing situations.

We may hope that Kikaha is a good situational blitzed, but that won't fix our defence. It is time to face that we need to recruit two starting defensive ends next years. That may sound to you like a lack of confidence on Jordan, but it is the opposite. The best moments in Cam's career is when he is moving all over the defensive line, getting pressure from the outside, from the inside, even behind the line of scrimmage. If he have depth to make Cam a "joker" kind of player, then we will be able to fix our lack of pressure on the quarterback.

A lot of this is secondary, of course, until we have a unit that is quick in reacting and sure at tackling, something we have missed for a long time now.

We have had this conversation before, and Ellerbe has frustrated me by showing what a difference a sideline to sideline linebacker would make for our defence. I would love to see a basic defence with Ellerbe and Robertson flanking Anthony. When drafted, I thought that Anthony would be able to handle the SAM position, but now I think his best position is MIKE, but with support.

And from this I come to role players. If there is a moot point now of disagreement that I have with Dennis Allen this season is keeping Mike Harris on the sideline. He made his money in Canada on coverage for what would be a WILL-SS position, isolated playing zone outside of the line of scrimmage. I hope we give him a chance next year to play that position with us in passing situations.

We may hope that Kikaha is a good situational blitzed, but that won't fix our defence. It is time to face that we need to recruit two starting defensive ends next years. That may sound to you like a lack of confidence on Jordan, but it is the opposite. The best moments in Cam's career is when he is moving all over the defensive line, getting pressure from the outside, from the inside, even behind the line of scrimmage. If he have depth to make Cam a "joker" kind of player, then we will be able to fix our lack of pressure on the quarterback.

A lot of this is secondary, of course, until we have a unit that is quick in reacting and sure at tackling, something we have missed for a long time now.

I don't agree about Jordan and here is why.

When you are running a base Over front the 6 tech LDE is very important to how it functions. Cams role in the D is very key. To put a lesser player there messes with the integrity of what it is built around.

When the Seahawks tried to play an Over with Red Bryant it failed because he couldn't 2 gap. Cam Can handle the RT/TE just like he's been doing and it takes a special player to be able to do it and do it well.

The entire basis of the front is dependent on the 3Tech DT , the LDE, the SS and the MLB. When you think about it in that way it should make sense as to why we invested 1st rounders in each position with all 4 of those guys having that 1st round pedigree. Anthony(1st) Jordan(1st) Rankins(1st) Vaccaro(1st). We spend a lot of time on how the Dcoordinators we have don't build the D around the players. Allen does that and now we want to make Jordan a mover.

SP did an interview after the Rankins injury and the question was asked about kicking Jordan in on 3rd downs and SP said they didn't forsee to much of that as his best production has come from LE. Low and behold even with the injuries Cam has been used inside sparingly and i expect that to continue.

 

[TheMike62987]

if we had one or both out of breaux/rankins for the first 6 games, i think we'd be 4-2 at worst. possibly 5-1.

they need to start looking at trainers for the pelicans and saints. i know some or fluke injuries (williams concussion being as bad as it was/broken legs for breaux and rankins) but having 2 of the most injured teams in 2 different sports being run by some of the same people, little coincidental right?

The Pels are a walking injury year after year.

 

[LombardiGras]

I think Fairely should be on the list of guys to build around, assuming his outburst last game was an isolated incident and not indicative of an attitude problem. He has been one of the best players on defense this season.

I also agree Vacarro is a player to build around. He is the type of versatile player that will only become more valuable in the modern NFL. He has the the right attitude to be great, and his performance on the field has been backing it up. Letting Vacarro walk would be a big step backward for the defense.

 

[zippy]

Im starting to question that thought.

How good can or defense be if our SS is always our SS, if our MIKE is always our MIKE, if our WILL is always the WILL, and our NB is always the NB.

If our defense is that easy to read pre-snap that may be a problem contributor.

agreed our SS should start at NT or DE

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

How do I feel week 17? Damn good about my assessment. Enjoy the read.

edit: I've warmed up to Fairly much more and like Snead also consider him a priorty Signing.