What is the max cap number you pay Jameis? (2 Viewers)

What is the max per year you pay Jameis?

  • 5mil

    Votes: 20 8.9%
  • 7.5mil

    Votes: 17 7.6%
  • 10mil

    Votes: 45 20.1%
  • 12.5mil

    Votes: 21 9.4%
  • 15mil

    Votes: 46 20.5%
  • 17.5mil

    Votes: 20 8.9%
  • 20mil

    Votes: 23 10.3%
  • 22.5mil

    Votes: 5 2.2%
  • 25+mil

    Votes: 4 1.8%
  • Tacoes

    Votes: 23 10.3%

  • Total voters
    224
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You are coach/GM. How much per year is too much for you to pay for Jameis service.

Assume all incentives will be considered "likely to be earned" by the league. So they count towards the cap number we have to handle at the new league year.

Edit: As far as incentives and other unique contracts, assume Jameis will bet on himself but you must beat out another team's contract. The competing contract is a traditional $/yr contract. What was their average $/yr you were just willing to beat?
 
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meily

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It's going to be more than what Taysom is averaging so I believe $15 million avg in this contract and may be for 2yrs....so a 2yr $30 million dollar deal.
 

MLU

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You will also eventually pay that and it will affect the talent on your team. Hold off 30mil for 2 years and see what it does to you in year 3. It's really bad if he's cut, no more delaying tactics then.
No, you can still delay it by converting salary to bonuses and/or extending the contract with voidable years.


I know people have a hard time wrapping their heads around this, but there's no restrictions for this. This can be done in perpetuity as long as the Saints keep planning the way they've been planning these contracts for the last 14 years.

As my father says, tomorrow never comes...
 
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No, you can still delay it by converting salary to bonuses and/or extending the contract with voidable years.


I know people have a hard time wrapping their heads around this, but there's no restrictions for this. This can be done in perpetuity as long as the Saints keep planning the way they've been planning these contracts for the last 14 years.

As my father says, tomorrow never comes...
Until tomorrow he's getting cut, or you let him walk in FA or he retires. All that money is owed now. The more you push it back the more you lock into the player. Eventually it will affect your team.

Why do you think we are so tight against the cap the next two years?
 
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Saint Spud

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Until tomorrow he's getting cut, or you let him walk in FA or he retires. All that money is owed now. The more you push it back the more you lock into the player. Eventually it will affect your team.

Why do you think we are so tight against the cap the next two years?
Except we’re going to work our way out of it. Again.

It’s true that we can’t afford to wildly spend and create a mid-2000’s New York Yankees type team. And yes, there are price points where we have historically walked away from players, so if someone wanted to offer Jameis $40 million a year, we couldn’t match.

But hitting on the QB is the most important thing in football. And outside of paying him top-5 QB money, we could easily create voidable years, etc to match any reasonable offer. And if it doesn’t work out, we do the same thing in a year or two, more likely with a draft pick since we will be selecting higher.
 
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Except we’re going to work our way out of it. Again.

It’s true that we can’t afford to wildly spend and create a mid-2000’s New York Yankees type team. And yes, there are price points where we have historically walked away from players, so if someone wanted to offer Jameis $40 million a year, we couldn’t match.

But hitting on the QB is the most important thing in football. And outside of paying him top-5 QB money, we could easily create voidable years, etc to match any reasonable offer. And if it doesn’t work out, we do the same thing in a year or two, more likely with a draft pick since we will be selecting higher.
A "reasonable offer" is the key. I don't think the community is around 10-15 mil because they think it's unreasonable. I also don't think we pay close to that in 2021 for cap purposes (probably under 5 mil). There is a real chance Jameis doesn't work out so you can't guarantee him 30 mil/yr. Especially paying only 5-10 mill the next two years. All that void money will destroy your roster when it accelerates.
 

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A "reasonable offer" is the key. I don't think the community is around 10-15 mil because they think it's unreasonable. I also don't think we pay close to that in 2021 for cap purposes (probably under 5 mil). There is a real chance Jameis doesn't work out so you can't guarantee him 30 mil/yr. Especially paying only 5-10 mill the next two years. All that void money will destroy your roster when it accelerates.
$30 million a year is top ten QB money. He isn’t going to get that so you don’t have to worry about it.

Beyond that, it’s hard to say what a “reasonable” offer is because structure matters so much and we do that better than anyone in the NFL.

So we can sit here in February and talk about $10 million a year or $15 million a year or whatever. But the reality is that we will always structure it in a way that we can pay it off later and be perfectly fine. If Jameis is the guy Payton wants, as all indications seem to be that he is, I just can’t see him getting outbid.
 

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$30 million a year is top ten QB money. He isn’t going to get that so you don’t have to worry about it.

Beyond that, it’s hard to say what a “reasonable” offer is because structure matters so much and we do that better than anyone in the NFL.

So we can sit here in February and talk about $10 million a year or $15 million a year or whatever. But the reality is that we will always structure it in a way that we can pay it off later and be perfectly fine. If Jameis is the guy Payton wants, as all indications seem to be that he is, I just can’t see him getting outbid.
If Winston signs with NO (and I believe he will), I think the deal will likely be a 3 yr contract with the last year voidable for both sides, that pays like $21m, $24m, and then $30m on the voidable year. $40m guaranteed in signing bonus and salary for the first two years that can spread out the cap hit over all three years if either side rejects the third year when they get there.
 
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If Winston signs with NO (and I believe he will), I think the deal will likely be a 3 yr contract with the last year voidable for both sides, that pays like $21m, $24m, and then $30m on the voidable year. $40m guaranteed in signing bonus and salary for the first two years that can spread out the cap hit over all three years if either side rejects the third year when they get there.
The Saint's would have an incredible time making 21mil cap space this year, even if he's the only FA they sign. Also 24mil next year will be tough. Maybe it's doable, hard to say but it will be another very tight year.

The number and length you are talking about would probably look like

2021 - 6 mil (1 mil salary (g), 5 mil bonus)
2022 - 24 mil (19 mil salary (g), 5 mil bonus)
2023 - 45 mil (10 mil salary (g), 30 mil salary (ug), 5 mil bonus)

2 years fully guaranteed and 15 mil dead money in 2023 is your only out.
 

Judge_Smails

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The Saint's would have an incredible time making 21mil cap space this year, even if he's the only FA they sign. Also 24mil next year will be tough. Maybe it's doable, hard to say but it will be another very tight year.

The number and length you are talking about would probably look like

2021 - 6 mil (1 mil salary (g), 5 mil bonus)
2022 - 24 mil (19 mil salary (g), 5 mil bonus)
2023 - 45 mil (10 mil salary (g), 30 mil salary (ug), 5 mil bonus)

2 years fully guaranteed and 15 mil dead money in 2023.
I agree that they will load as much as possible into signing bonus to reduce the 2021 cap hit.

Saints are going to have to guarantee over $20m per year on avg. though, no matter how they chop it up. There is not an NFL starter on their second contract that makes less than $20 mil per year.
 
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I agree that they will load as much as possible into signing bonus to reduce the 2021 cap hit.

Saints are going to have to guarantee over $20m per year on avg. though, no matter how they chop it up. There is not an NFL starter on their second contract that makes less than $20 mil per year.
I think the Saints need to value the likelihood he will be a starter and pay him accordingly. I don't think they are in a position to take on big cap hits versus risk. From what I know I'd put him somewhere between Bridgewater and Fitzpatrick when they were FAs (not comparing trajectories after being signed). If he gets paid more elsewhere I think we will be fine. We have a good enough roster (which will be better without taking on that money) and we can regroup with our options in 2022. Maybe we get lucky with a cheaper risk in 2021.
 

Judge_Smails

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I think the Saints need to value the likelihood he will be a starter and pay him accordingly. I don't think they are in a position to take on big cap hits versus risk. From what I know I'd put him somewhere between Bridgewater and Fitzpatrick when they were FAs (not comparing trajectories after being signed). If he gets paid more elsewhere I think we will be fine. We have a good enough roster (which will be better without taking on that money) and we can regroup with our options in 2022. Maybe we get lucky with a cheaper risk in 2021.
I think you have to pull the trigger on Winston, because if you do not sign him and also don’t bring in a Wilson or Watson - you are essentially telling the rest of your playoff roster (and fans) that you are building for the future more than trying to remain a legitimate contender now.

Hard for me to believe the Saints brain trust is going to let the best defense they’ve had since the Dome Patrol, along with the best RB and WR they’ve ever had waste the prime they have left developing a rookie or rolling with Fitz, Alex Smith, Trubisky, or Taysom Hill.

I think they’ll sign Winston to a market value contract that is set up to accommodate cap issues. I think the Saints front office seeing what happened with the Patriots not having a good successor in place for Brady will influence all this as well.
 
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I think you have to pull the trigger on Winston, because if you do not sign him and also don’t bring in a Wilson or Watson - you are essentially telling the rest of your playoff roster (and fans) that you are building for the future more than trying to remain a legitimate contender now.

Hard for me to believe the Saints brain trust is going to let the best defense they’ve had since the Dome Patrol, along with the best RB and WR they’ve ever had waste the prime they have left developing a rookie or rolling with Fitz, Alex Smith, Trubisky, or Taysom Hill.

I think they’ll sign Winston to a market value contract that is set up to accommodate cap issues. I think the Saints front office seeing what happened with the Patriots not having a good successor in place for Brady will influence all this as well.
Like I said I put him between Teddy and Fitz as FAs. I don't think either of those scream legit contender as a QB. I think our roster is the only thing that screams legit contenders. To be convinced at QB I think you have to bring in a top 10 QB or at least some guaranteed stability like a Derek Carr at minimum. You can roll the dice and hope your roster carries you and you get lucky at QB. As a fan Jameis doesn't sell me on a Superbowl. I think we can make the playoffs with many QBs.
 

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Like I said I put him between Teddy and Fitz as FAs. I don't think either of those scream legit contender as a QB. I think our roster is the only thing that screams legit contenders. To be convinced at QB I think you have to bring in a top 10 QB or at least some guaranteed stability like a Derek Carr at minimum. You can roll the dice and hope your roster carries you and you get lucky at QB. As a fan Jameis doesn't sell me on a Superbowl. I think we can make the playoffs with many QBs.
I think Winston will be better than you likely do. I think CSP and Saints locker room feel the same as I do. Fitz and Teddy B are much more limited at their best than Winston. Payton believes he can get the best out of his QBs.
 

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If Winston signs with NO (and I believe he will), I think the deal will likely be a 3 yr contract with the last year voidable for both sides, that pays like $21m, $24m, and then $30m on the voidable year. $40m guaranteed in signing bonus and salary for the first two years that can spread out the cap hit over all three years if either side rejects the third year when they get there.
That's way too much for Winston. He hasn't proven that he can take a team to the playoffs . No way...no how....NO ONE fears Winston...NO ONE......I would just pay him like Teddy..8 mill a year and he can prove himself...
 

Merl

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Until tomorrow he's getting cut, or you let him walk in FA or he retires. All that money is owed now. The more you push it back the more you lock into the player. Eventually it will affect your team.

Why do you think we are so tight against the cap the next two years?
Winston has no hit against the cap for 2021 since he was signed to just a 1 year minimum contract with a year year charge as signing bonus. He won't be a FA until the start of the league year next month.

Jameis Winston Contract Breakdowns, Salary Cap Figures, Salaries, Bonuses | Spotrac
 

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