What kind of trash QB throws for over 20 INTs in a season? (1 Viewer)

[StudioSaint]

Situational stats are trickier, I agree. And


That might be but that wasn’t part of my consideration. A lot goes into winning and losing.

That's true, but winning and losing plays a lot into the statistics you posted. They are inseparable.

The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from the statistics you posted is that at the same point in their careers those specific statistics between the two payers were similar.

Those statistics don't give any reasonable indication of the comparison of the actual quality of play between those two players up to that point in their career. They don't give any reasonable indication of what to expect from either of those players after that point in their careers.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Did you see the board Brees’ last season about his arm strength?????

Was any of it wrong?

 

[DSnfla]

Oh yeah. Drew Brees.

In 2010.....the same calendar year in which he won the SB.

You know what's really annoying about all the Jameis stuff? He has no room for error. When he plays really well, or even pretty good as a game manager, it's "he's getting those bad habits coached out of him". When he throws a pick or 2, it's "welppppp, here we go again. Tried to tell y'all, this is just who Jameis is !!!"

It's Groundhog Day from a year ago. Dude looked great against the Packers, and suddenly the sky was the limit because THE DEEP BALL IS BACK IN NEW ORLEANS, BABY! Had a much less stellar outing against Carolina the following week, and the forum became cluttered with threads that look similar to what we currently have now.

Aaron Levenstein said

“Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.”​

The INT stat is probably the most misleading stat in football because it is hard sometimes to say who is to blame. Did the ball hit the guy in the hands and it popped up? Was it the WR that ran the wrong route ? Was the QB hit as he was throwing? But yet it's all the QB's fault. I did not look at every one of JW 30 INTs when he was with TB so I can't say if they were mostly his fault. Just like DB's INTs. Some keep saying "Drew threw 3 INTs in his last game " But 2 were really not his fault. Could be that some of JW's INTs in the 30 yr were not his fault. But the 3 he threw on Sun. I'm pretty sure were on him

 

[NewOrleansBoy]

I'm noticing the same threads on SSF as I did on Pewter Report when Winston was Tampa's QB.

Damn. I mean, damn. Literally, the exact same debates about him. It's crazy if you think about it.

A Buccs' fan and poster on here posted last week that he got to watch that for 5 years with Winston.

We are now living what he experienced.

^ Someone will now try to take everything I said above and turn it into a negative comment narrative.

 

[Krodwhodat]

I'm most definitely with you...I remember when Bridgewater was starting (and winning BTW) there was a multi page thread criticizing his performance....had to dig it up

Teddy Bridgewater Breakdowns by Seth Galina

I thought these were some great breakdowns of Teddy's play. Not a glowing review but I think he will get better.

saintsreport.com

Winning wasn't even enough apparently...When have we ever done this after a win...with a Backup QB nonetheless?

Look at the defense stats when Teddy won those games. We were the best in the NFL and while I wasn’t one of the fans calling for Teddy’s head guess what? They were right. He hasn’t kept a starting job since.

 

[dr61258]

Was any of it wrong?

Just like the boards reaction to Winston. Spot on.

 

[DavidM]

That's true, but winning and losing plays a lot into the statistics you posted. They are inseparable.

The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn from the statistics you posted is that at the same point in their careers those specific statistics between the two payers were similar.

Those statistics don't give any reasonable indication of the comparison of the actual quality of play between those two players up to that point in their career. They don't give any reasonable indication of what to expect from either of those players after that point in their careers.

Again, that wasn’t my objective. I would encourage anybody to regard the data as they wish, or disregard it altogether if they prefer. If you want to put in the time to do a deeper dive and explore something more, go for it.

The value I see in looking at a seven year sample size is that it accounts for some variation of circumstances that both players have encountered over those periods of their careers, and as pushback to the idea that it’s somehow disrespectful to Brees to make comparisons between the two. I actually think, given the career he had here, he becomes the standard by which every Saints QB will be compared for years to come.

The statistical similarities are present but weren’t intended to diminish what Brees would go on to accomplish, or to establish that the two players are on equal footing, or negate other considerations that went into their personal and team successes and struggles. If I thought any of that, I would have said that.

Brees was a remarkable player and by all accounts, was meticulous in his training and preparation. I think Winston is talented in his own right, but has a long way yet to go.

 

[StudioSaint]

I'm noticing the same threads on SSF as I did on Pewter Report when Winston was Tampa's QB.

Damn. I mean, damn. Literally, the exact same debates about him. It's crazy if you think about it.

A Buccs' fan and poster on here posted last week that he got to watch that for 5 years with Winston.

We are now living what he experienced.

^ Someone will now try to take everything I said above and turn it into a negative comment narrative.

It's not a random coincidence either. There's a reason this happens wherever Winston goes and it's not spontaneous.

There's a post in one of these Winston related threads in which someone said that they know Winston reads these threads. I believed it before it was posted. Winston doesn't hide the fact that he has an entourage of people actively doing PR for him. He has had it since his college days. I've never known of any NFL player that actively tries so hard to get everyone to like them. I think that's Winston's biggest obstacle as a QB, he's too worried about what people think about him. I think it's what causes his hesitance, inconsistency and being driven to play hero ball.

Since his first season at Tampa Bay, Winston has always said the "right" things in front of a microphone. He's always done that. It's nothing new or a change on his part. It just seems like something new or change on his part if you never heard what he said over and over while at Tampa Bay.

Winston played a little differently while Payton was his coach. In two games without Payton, he's back to playing how he did in Tampa Bay, hot leading to wins or cold leading to losses. There doesn't seem to be any evenness to his game. While at Tampa Bay there was more cold leading to losses to his play than hot leading to wins. It remains to be seen if his play will lead to more losses or more wins without Payton as his coach.

Even if his play leads to more wins than losses, teams with hot and cold QB's rarely make a deep playoff run, let alone win a Super Bowl.

 

[meily]

I'm noticing the same threads on SSF as I did on Pewter Report when Winston was Tampa's QB.

Damn. I mean, damn. Literally, the exact same debates about him. It's crazy if you think about it.

A Buccs' fan and poster on here posted last week that he got to watch that for 5 years with Winston.

We are now living what he experienced.

^ Someone will now try to take everything I said above and turn it into a negative comment narrative.

People really think he's a different player because he's in a Saints uniform.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

People really think he's a different player because he's in a Saints uniform.

Nah, can't peak for anyone else, but I hoped that he could be and all that changed when Payton quit. I have said repeatedly that my hope was that Payton could do for Winston what he did for Brees, a man who was benched for Flutie.

At least Winston can say he was discarded for Brady.

 

[Semper]

That's why I said a long time ago...I want the next QB to be blue.

Oh no way. Never blue here. Give me purple or give me death!

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Oh no way. Never blue here. Give me purple or give me death!

He can be purple but...If he's got one eye, one horn and can fly....I'm out

 

[Colstonbaby]

Oh yeah. Drew Brees.

In 2010.....the same calendar year in which he won the SB.

You know what's really annoying about all the Jameis stuff? He has no room for error. When he plays really well, or even pretty good as a game manager, it's "he's getting those bad habits coached out of him". When he throws a pick or 2, it's "welppppp, here we go again. Tried to tell y'all, this is just who Jameis is !!!"

It's Groundhog Day from a year ago. Dude looked great against the Packers, and suddenly the sky was the limit because THE DEEP BALL IS BACK IN NEW ORLEANS, BABY! Had a much less stellar outing against Carolina the following week, and the forum became cluttered with threads that look similar to what we currently have now.

He barely any deep throws against the Packers opener last season.....so i doubt anyone was saying the deep ball is back

 

[Kingston]

Not really sure what the point of this is? Yeah, Brees threw 22 picks in 2010. The most he ever threw in New Orleans. 2010 was one of the lowest QB ratings of his NOLA career. That said, if Jameis matches Brees' 2010 yardage totals and also leads the team to an 11-5 record I'll be pumped. Is it too early to call for Jameis to be benched? Totally. But is it also ok to point out that he has played poorly in the first two games? Still totally.

I think he was dealing with a host of injuries that year his knee was messed up vs. the Cards early in the season which caused him to tinker with his throwing motion and gave him some abdominal issues as well.

Injuries can affect play for any player including QB’s. That is just as much for Brees as it is for Winston.

 

[Icon]

He barely any deep throws against the Packers opener last season.....so i doubt anyone was saying the deep ball is back

I'll assume you meant "except" the deep ball thrown to Deonte ......and "except" when Brees himself literally uttered those words . Not to mention the comments on this very forum.