What kind of trash QB throws for over 20 INTs in a season? (1 Viewer)

[jahsoul357]

Brees was already in HOF discussions and playing in a Super Bowl at the point in his career where Jameis is now. False equivalency.

*name checks out*

As a Purdue alum I have rooted for Drew since 1998.

I love Drew Brees and everything he ever gave to me as a fan.

He ain’t walking through that door.

Even if he did, he would be old and incapable of being the Drew we know.

Jameis is playing hurt. Jameis also has the added pressure of being the poor bastage who had to follow the guy who is getting a bronze statue one day.

When I lived in Denver a million years ago John Elway had just won B2B and was retiring. The next QB they paid was Jake Plummer, who had turned the Cardinals from a total joke to beating the Cowboys in the piece of work in Dallas, effectively ending the 90’s Cowboy dynasty. Teammates loved him. He signed a big deal as a FA.

He never had a chance.

The locals rejected him as not Elway and the reporters had the audacity to say he was mistake prone. Needs to play more under control and turn it over less they said. Like Elway wasnt a gunslinger and a turnover machine. Sound familiar?

Nobody remembered he got embarrassed in three Super Bowls. Straight up dogwalked. No, they remember the comeback wins against the Browns (who choked) and the Superbowls he did win (because of Terrell Davis).

Canonizing and deifying Brees isn’t going to help anyone. He made plenty of mistakes. But he is a GD first ballot HoFer for jeebus sakes. If those were easy to come by they wouldn’t be first ballot HoFers.

The new guy is a different player completely. But he is playing with a broken back, engaging, funny and his team loves him. I believe he has the charisma to lead. If he fails on the field the rest will take care of itself.

But if you’re comparing him to Brees, then you are doing both of them a disservice. And hoping for college QBs, well ask Bronco, Bears, Cleveland, Detroit, etc etc. about drafting a QB and how well that works out most of the time.

We got to watch a first ballot HoFer deal each week. There are a handful of Franchises that can say that. The ones that retired/released a HoF QB and continued to dominate with another HOF QB can be counted on two fingers (49ers & Green Bay). The chance of QB purgatory is hugely greater than landing another HOFer now.

But again Jameis can win and I support him 100%. No matter for how long he is the QB for the Saints I will support him. But asking him to be Drew is asking him to be someone he is not.

Using "deifying" on SR? Twins? lol

And you are so right about Elway. I tell all of my friends who are Broncos fans that Russ is WAY too young for them to win a Super Bowl...hahaha.

 

[OldTimeGamer1966]

You compared him first. Don't act like Brees din't have some terrible games with saints.
For some reason Jameis is on a much shorter leash than Brees was on with the fans that don't know football.

I do state that Drew is could even be blamed for some of our losses . This thread is a comparison thread if you didn't notice. I know football and I know that right now Jameis has a lot to prove he has been below average so far even if it is only 2 games. I support Jameis go and find a post of mine where I am bashing him if you can.

I am not going to sugar coat anything either. Right now in the infancy of the 22 season our QB is sub par excluding 1 quarter...sorry it is reality. Drew was absolutely horrible in the first half of the Minnesota Miracle game. He was brilliant in the second half. Jameis was horrendous in the first 3 quarters in Atlanta he was brilliant in the last 10 min of the 4th it was awesome.

I have said it a bunch of times Jameis has the season to prove himself maybe not even the whole season depending on how Allen sees it. It is too early to give up on Jameis or anything else.

Jameis will always be on a short leash by a good portion of the fan base and national sports community because of his past performances. Like it or not it will take nothing short of a playoff run and success in the playoffs to change minds. He is the Saints QB but I am not going to whine when he isn't getting the respect that I think he should. He does get the short end of the stick but that's his problem and job to change it.

 

[DavidM]

If Jameis throws for 300-350 yards a game and 2 picks. im happy with it.
Fact is he is throwing for 160-260 yards a game in a saint uniform with multiple picks makes me not happy. he is not moving the ball down field. Missing reads, missing throws, missing protection assignments, and turtling from any blitz he sees.
Under a 100 yards at half, twice now i believe. I really dont get what Jameis fanboys and girls are seeing so far. I gave the excuse of it being the receivers not being open last year. We have MT Juice and Olave. There is no excuse for him now.

Brees comparisons? smh haha seriously... wow people... Imagine the most accurate quarterback of all time being compared to Jameis Winston....

Brees went on to become that highly accurate QB, but Brees and Winston compare favorably on key statistics over their first 7 years.

Winston does need to get his yardage numbers up but we also need to set realistic expectations. Brees averaged 276 yards a game (8841 / 32) over his first two seasons in New Orleans, playing in Payton's offense, and about 280 a game over his career. A big question now is what Winston's progress will look like, comparatively, with Payton gone.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Brees was already in HOF discussions and playing in a Super Bowl at the point in his career where Jameis is now. False equivalency.

Uh, NO.

 

[jahsoul357]

Wow. I compared his number to Favre and they were close but not this close. Crazy.

That Jameis1of1 dude on Twitter said that Jameis' trajectory based on stats are closer to Hall of Famers than we realize. I thought he was BSing until I went and look and began to look at number myself. Tony Dungy said that his numbers were dang near identical to Peyton's but Peyton had a better team

 

[UltraSaints]

I actually don’t blame Winston fully and I also don’t give him complete props for last year. People need to understand that without Payton, Winston will not be as good. Payton deserves credit for how Winston was playing last year. Not just Winston. So by that logic, he can’t reap the full blame when he plays bad. Dennis Allen and Pete Carmichael especially are to blame too.

I think we are simple seeing Winston without Sean Payton and sadly I wouldn’t expect him to return to last years form without him. DA and Pete C are not SP and never will be.

We can hope but only SP was able to get the best out of Winston. It’s no coincidence that the best stretch of his career was under SP.

 

[J.T.]

Trigger warning: Statistical comparison between Brees and Winston through the first seven years of their careers. Straight up, just the numbers they accumulated.

Brees:

Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yards	TD	Int
1921	3015	63.7	21189	134	82

Winston:

Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yards	TD	Int
1665	2720	61.2	20982	135	91

Wow. I compared his number to Favre and they were close but not this close. Crazy.

Same type of info I was using to "defend" the Saints going with Winston last year and this year. EXACT same type of thing.......BUT.......

Was Brees getting better in years 6 and 7 and is Winston getting worse? Honest question here. I like Winston, he will get a few more games to figure it out, but if he stinks it up for 3-5 games, he will be pulled. That is just a fact. Again, I REALLY like Winston and want him to pull up out of this semi-nosedive. He can fly high and take this team VERY far if he plays like just 70% of 2009 Brees. I don't expect 100% of Brees, just 70% of Brees is good enough. By that I mean, better than Teddy, but not a lot better.

 

[OldTimeGamer1966]

We've covered those "what ifs" to no end...but the 2 INTs were never mentioned...it's as if they didn't happen. We talked about Pierre's fumble at the one...as if some of us can hold on to a football while being knocked unconscious, but no mention was ever made of the INTs.

Oh yeah I agree Brees escaped a lot of criticism because he built up enough credit. That doesn't make it right he should have gotten criticism. It's just the opposite with Jameis he hasn't done anything yet and he is known for game killing picks so he will get over criticized.

I agree with you we largely avoided criticism of Drew. I know I avoided it just because I felt he deserved a pass but so I admit I am guilty.

 

[Chad1886]

He had ONE game with multiple picks, one.

I suggest you go through and look at the stats from "the most accurate QB of all time" and understand that he didn't start out that way.

I am well aware of Brees start. Is Jameis just starting his career? ill help you out. the answer is no.

And putting the most accurate QB of all time in quotations? Are you saying he's not?

Brees has four of the top five single-season completion percentage marks in NFL history

7142 completions 80000 plus yards. Takes Brady 3 more seasons to get close to breaking his records. Yes he was the most accurate QB of all time. I suggest you go through and look at his stats and understand how lucky you were to have Brees as the Saints qb. Comparing him to Jameis is an insult to Brees.

Hopefully he passes for more than 111 yards 0td and 2 picks this time around vs the Panthers. Ill be cheering for him and ill be cheering for the next starting QB next year.

 

[DeuceMcAllisterFan]

That Jameis1of1 dude on Twitter said that Jameis' trajectory based on stats are closer to Hall of Famers than we realize. I thought he was BSing until I went and look and began to look at number myself. Tony Dungy said that his numbers were dang near identical to Peyton's but Peyton had a better team

Now let’s add Ryan Tannehill and his stats to the conversation. They look great.

 

[jahsoul357]

Same type of info I was using to "defend" the Saints going with Winston last year and this year. EXACT same type of thing.......BUT.......

Was Brees getting better in years 6 and 7 and is Winston getting worse? Honest question here. I like Winston, he will get a few more games to figure it out, but if he stinks it up for 3-5 games, he will be pulled. That is just a fact. Again, I REALLY like Winston and want him to pull up out of this semi-nosedive. He can fly high and take this team VERY far if he plays like just 70% of 2009 Brees. I don't expect 100% of Brees, just 70% of Brees is good enough. By that I mean, better than Teddy, but not a lot better.

This is Drew Brees starting year 7

 

[Big_L]

I am well aware of Brees start. Is Jameis just starting his career? ill help you out. the answer is no.

And putting the most accurate QB of all time in quotations? Are you saying he's not?

Brees has four of the top five single-season completion percentage marks in NFL history

7142 completions 80000 plus yards. Takes Brady 3 more seasons to get close to breaking his records. Yes he was the most accurate QB of all time. I suggest you go through and look at his stats and understand how lucky you were to have Brees as the Saints qb. Comparing him to Jameis is an insult to Brees.

Hopefully he passes for more than 111 yards 0td and 2 picks this time around vs the Panthers. Ill be cheering for him and ill be cheering for the next starting QB next year.

Brees wasn't just starting out his career either.

I put that in quotes because I was quoting you, real simple.

Only a select few think it's insulting. You shouldn't compare Brees to Brady then. Brady has about 5 more rings that Brees.

I'm sure you will be cheering for him.

 

[DavidM]

Same type of info I was using to "defend" the Saints going with Winston last year and this year. EXACT same type of thing.......BUT.......

Was Brees getting better in years 6 and 7 and is Winston getting worse? Honest question here. I like Winston, he will get a few more games to figure it out, but if he stinks it up for 3-5 games, he will be pulled. That is just a fact. Again, I REALLY like Winston and want him to pull up out of this semi-nosedive. He can fly high and take this team VERY far if he plays like just 70% of 2009 Brees. I don't expect 100% of Brees, just 70% of Brees is good enough. By that I mean, better than Teddy, but not a lot better.

Keep in mind, Winston played very little in years 6-7 (his first two in New Orleans) but I included them because I think there is some value in just looking at what both players did on a complete available sample size to this point in Winston's career. Brees saw limited action as a rookie so there is some evening out in that regard.

Jameis had the outstanding TD:INT ratio going in year 7 but then the completion percentage was the second lowest of his career (rookie year). I do think it's fair to say Brees was more of an ascending player at that point, while acknowledging their circumstances were quite different. Winston's development is more uneven, where he got better in some areas, his completion percentage improved each year through season 4, topping out at 64.6, but yardage, TDs, and INTs showed no real trend until the Arians season, where yardage, TDs, and INTs increased significantly, and his completion percentage regressed slightly.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

Winston does need to get his yardage numbers up but we also need to set realistic expectations. Brees averaged 276 yards a game (8841 / 32) over his first two seasons in New Orleans, playing in Payton's offense, and about 280 a game over his career.

Add to that, this isn't the same offense we were running in Brees' early years. We ran more of a spread offense back then, today's offense is the one we started running after our last 7-9 season, a season which also included a Brees shoulder injury.

From that point on the field was shorten and wide-outs were brought further in to the tackles. That is also when Brees' interception dropped from the double digit range, without looking it up again, I bet Brees avg at least 16 INTs per year prior to the '17 season.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

I actually don’t blame Winston fully and I also don’t give him complete props for last year. People need to understand that without Payton, Winston will not be as good. Payton deserves credit for how Winston was playing last year. Not just Winston. So by that logic, he can’t reap the full blame when he plays bad. Dennis Allen and Pete Carmichael especially are to blame too.

I think we are simple seeing Winston without Sean Payton and sadly I wouldn’t expect him to return to last years form without him. DA and Pete C are not SP and never will be.

We can hope but only SP was able to get the best out of Winston. It’s no coincidence that the best stretch of his career was under SP.

Payton deserves more praise for Brees as well! That is the main reason I was P'Oed when he quit on us, I depending on him to duplicate what he did for Brees with Winston.