What makes a good SAM OLB in the 3-4? (1 Viewer)

[bclemms]

I am sure he can tackle, I haven't seen him do it often, but I am sure he can.

You haven't seen him do it often because Will Smith got 1000 defensive snaps last season.

 

[Koketsu_Sama]

We used to call Strong outside "HANK" (heavy outside) and Weak outside "LUKE" (light outside) in high school. SAM and WILL were the middle backers. I've heard someone on this site mention them as DOG and CAT, but the responsibilities should be similar. Your HANK is your nasty, blow up the tackle, don't run to this side, football player, maybe not so much the athlete as the LUKE, but all football player. Your LUKE is more athletic freak, faster than some corners and receivers, tackles scheme for his speed rush but he might drop into coverage, ridiculous motor type. I believe we have serviceable guys on the team, but we don't have depth.

 

[Koketsu_Sama]

Maybe instead of thinking of it as a 5-2 we should instead think of it as a 4-3 under almost.

Dude, you are psychic! I was thinking this the other day!

 

[bclemms]

We used to call Strong outside "HANK" (heavy outside) and Weak outside "LUKE" (light outside) in high school. SAM and WILL were the middle backers. I've heard someone on this site mention them as DOG and CAT, but the responsibilities should be similar. Your HANK is your nasty, blow up the tackle, don't run to this side, football player, maybe not so much the athlete as the LUKE, but all football player. Your LUKE is more athletic freak, faster than some corners and receivers, tackles scheme for his speed rush but he might drop into coverage, ridiculous motor type. I believe we have serviceable guys on the team, but we don't have depth.

The big heavy pure football player isn't the only option anymore.

In today's NFL, in particular the NFC you need a guy that has the speed to contain bootlegs, options, read options and help rush the passer and drop into coverage in the passing game. Teams don't just line up and pound the ball like they used to. Plus if we roll with Hicks at the NT and Cam at LDE we should be able to hold up against the strong side run. If Smith is starting at RDE then teams are just going to run at him anyway.

 

[SebaSaint]

I really miss Scott Fujita.

 

[Koketsu_Sama]

The big heavy pure football player isn't the only option anymore.

In today's NFL, in particular the NFC you need a guy that has the speed to contain bootlegs, options, read options and help rush the passer and drop into coverage in the passing game. Teams don't just line up and pound the ball like they used to. Plus if we roll with Hicks at the NT and Cam at LDE we should be able to hold up against the strong side run. If Smith is starting at RDE then teams are just going to run at him anyway.

I miss smash-mouth football...Anyways, from your description of the prototype OLB, sounds like we need a Dion Jordan or Barkevious Mingo type.

 

[bclemms]

I miss smash-mouth football...Anyways, from your description of the prototype OLB, sounds like we need a Dion Jordan or Barkevious Mingo type.

Or Martez Wilson.

I think we are almost certainly going with offensive tackle in the first.

 

[CitySaint]

I like Wilsons height and length. He can easily extend his arms and get separation with blockers which gives him the upper hand in shedding blocks to make a play. He is a good "chase" type linebacker but he is a liability once a receiver breaks into the direcion of his route, he takes alot of time getting going from one direction to the next but once he is moving he is very fast. His coverage for QB's will be deceptive because of his speed when in coverage coming from behind and QB's mis-judging his length and ability to make plays on a ball assumed to be out of his reach.

 

[TruSaint]

I just wish we'd bring in a vet FA SAM for a visit instead of lookin at another CB. We could use the experience at that position to help the transition. I hope they don't plan to put their full trust in a draft pick

this is why i want them to bring in shawn phillips

 

[NOFALCONS10]

Physically Martez lines up pretty good alongside Brooks Reed in terms of measurables. Reeds a good 10-15lbs heavier but Wilson is faster. The extra strength probably does give him a better jam at the LOS which compensates for the decreased speed. But this is a coachable/trainable issues. Increased focus on upper body strength and better use of hands could greatly improve Wlson's effectiveness. He's a high ceiling player. And I'm naturally an optimist.

I do agree he's a more natural fit inside, probably SILB, but we've got players, even starting quality players there and no one at SOLB. Necessity kind of dictates our actions here, I would think. I think, if we could, we would like to bring in Victor Butler. Beyond knowing the coach and being hopefully cheap, he can swing between both OLB spots and therefore give us a decent "plan B" for both galette and Wilson. There's reason to be optimistic about both players but there is no doubt that we sure have a lot riding on a couple of guys we can't count on yet.

I can definitely see them putting Wilson on the outside out of necessity but i have to say that I love the way he fills gaps. His explosion and athleticism reminds me a lot of Lawrence Timmons and Patrick Willis inside.

I hadn't much considered that Vilma might also be able to play the WILB role well like Willis until your projection chart above but it is indeed something to consider. Lofton's lack of coverage ability is a concern to me but I'd be much more confident if Vilma and Wilson were playing ILB on 3rd downs and obvious passing situations.

Victor Butler would be a great addition at this point because right now I think that he'd probably be our best bet at strongside especially if wilson doesn't pan out. I must admit that Strongside LB is the position that concerns me the most, especially given the emergence of more zone read offenses.

 

[Randy Jones]

Wilson was a starting MLB in college. So, he has had some reps there. Keep in mind he has not had the reps at OLB. Obviously, his skills at that position are not well honed. It is difficult to be critical of an absence of something in his abilities, when he has not played that position. If he has the athleticism, I would have to believe he has the aptitude to develop and hone the recognition skills necessary to play the SOLB since he did play the MLB in college.

 

[ELLIASJWILLIAMS]

I like Wilsons height and length. He can easily extend his arms and get separation with blockers which gives him the upper hand in shedding blocks to make a play. He is a good "chase" type linebacker but he is a liability once a receiver breaks into the direcion of his route, he takes alot of time getting going from one direction to the next but once he is moving he is very fast. His coverage for QB's will be deceptive because of his speed when in coverage coming from behind and QB's mis-judging his length and ability to make plays on a ball assumed to be out of his reach.

I think Wilson's speed would be best used a run and chase tackler. He is the most sound tackler on the team...long arms drag down tackler. I like his ability to be a spy from the inside as well on faster QB's. I like his length in clogging up lanes in the middle of the field while dropping into shallow zones. I think he does a better job@ changing directions than u give him credit for. He is also a fundamentally sound FB player. He doesn't get sucked in on play actions and he is usually where hes supposed to be. He'd be an excellent A gap blitzer.

What i don't like about him is he isn't very instinctive....or he hasn't shown he can be. I think thats why SP has Vilma slated as a WILB because of his ability to diagnose the play and run to the ball.


Just my own input but the 3-4 under is very similar to the 4-3 under which was used in the Tampa 2 if im not mistaken.

3 of the most vital parts in that system are the RDE, WOLB, and the 3tech.


Well with that being said the same must be said for the 3-4 under except its the ROLB,WILB,and the 3tech still.

Well with ellis leaving we still have a hole@ 3tech. Thats if you view Cam Jordan as a 5tech and Hicks/Bunk as 1 techs. Of course you could view hicks as a 3tech Jordan as the 5 and Bunk as the 1 in which case ud need some backups there.

Wilson was brought in by 3G because he saw a SAM or SOLB. He saw a guy that could blitz on 3rd down but set the edge and cover TE's in the base. IF he is very good@ it remains to be seen as we've had a small sample size. The SOLB in the 3-4 under has basically the SAME responsibilities. So I think thats why you will see the team slot him here. Also because WILB is crowded in theory with Vilma/Hawthorne slotted there.

 

[LSSpam]

I can definitely see them putting Wilson on the outside out of necessity but i have to say that I love the way he fills gaps. His explosion and athleticism reminds me a lot of Lawrence Timmons and Patrick Willis inside.

I hadn't much considered that Vilma might also be able to play the WILB role well like Willis until your projection chart above but it is indeed something to consider. Lofton's lack of coverage ability is a concern to me but I'd be much more confident if Vilma and Wilson were playing ILB on 3rd downs and obvious passing situations.

Victor Butler would be a great addition at this point because right now I think that he'd probably be our best bet at strongside especially if wilson doesn't pan out. I must admit that Strongside LB is the position that concerns me the most, especially given the emergence of more zone read offenses.

Sean Payton's strongly indicated Vilma at the WILB in some interview if I remember correctly. And it makes sense. Vilma struggled in Mangini's two gap 3-4, but in a Wade Phillips 3-4 the WILB is pretty well covered up by the weak side de playing 3-tech. By contrast the SILB often faces an uncovered guard. That's why I project Lofton there, he's our only guy with the bulk and strength to engage interior offensive linemen, except Martez Wilson.

Remember we have David Hawthorne as well who is probably our most flexible LB even if he isn't ideal for many of the spots. You could, for instance, roll out a 4-2-5 nickel set with galette still on the field as a pass rusher and Hawthorne/Vilma at LB. Or go the Greg Williams route and run a 3-3-5 with Harper in the box

 

[Randy Jones]

What i don't like about him is he isn't very instinctive....or he hasn't shown he can be. I think thats why SP has Vilma slated as a WILB because of his ability to diagnose the play and run to the ball.

Instincts or recognition skills can only be built through reps and game film study. I don't have a clue whether he studies film, but I am certain he has not had the reps he needs to build his instincts.

 

[nolaDante]

I think the line of thought in this thread is not giving enough credit to some of the main reasons for switching to the 3-4 in the first place: alignment versatility and personnel flexibility. It's great to project players into base, "starting" assignments, but the general idea is to put your best playmakers on the field in positions to make plays that come natural to them. The 3-4 gives you many more options allowing you to keep the looks diverse and the personnel fresh.

Year one under RR, I envision somewhat of a platoon approach at LB. For this reason, i would love the V Butler pickup as well.