What measure makes Jameis a poor quarterback? (1 Viewer)

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Not even a fan of Jameis Winston - the truth is that the guy has tons of talent and he is being thrown under the bus for no good reason. That kinda sticks in my craw and makes me wonder what the motivation could be. Some seem to actually hate him. I would agree that he is goofy and awkward but he is intelligent and obviously talented, and his coaches and teammates all speak highly of him, including Sean Payton. So, my question remains; what measure makes Jameis a poor quarterback?
That was a cute question you posed, take you long to think of it?
I'm so cute. Cuter than you can cope with.

Meanwhile, you've been provided with a boatload of reasons and measures by which he can be fairly judged, but yet you don't accept any of them.

It's fine to believe in someone, but to blindly expect everyone else to agree with you is the cutest behaviour of all 😎
 
About Winston: Teams draft a QB in the early first round, and feel obligated to start them. In practice, they show a few bad habits, but some coaches start them anyway. I don't think SP is one of those coaches. If you have trouble with your reads, your mechanics, your pocket skills, I think you sit until they're cleaned up. Winston would have sat until he cleaned up most of his problems. He's still young, and can still be a great QB. He's just getting to the age when a QB's lights come on. I doubt it will be here.
 
Coach Sean Payton has spoken very glowingly about both of his QBs that have been backing up Drew Brees. He has been watching the progress of both Taysom & Jameis at every practice & team meeting. While he probably hoped he wouldn't have had to replace an injured Drew Brees, he had to make his decision on more than past statistics. I believe that the grasp of the offense and the amount of time working with the current offensive roster played the biggest role in Payton's decision to start Taysom last Sunday. I don't doubt any of the positive things that Sean said about Winston when reporters offered up questions about how he's coming along, but at the end of the day our coach had to weigh all the data about both players and simply ask himself, "Who do I trust more right now to get the job done?"

After the game Payton was asked about his decision and he said that it was a very tough one to make. It appears that a lot of the staff may have been on the fence about who would fill the role the best. I believe both of those statements. These two guys are both very talented and it is a close race to pick an eventual winner. But I can say that a lot was learned in the Atlanta game this past Sunday. Part of the 'experiment' (<-as so many tag this as being) was to see how Taysom would do in more than just a few cameo appearances during a game. Would he improve as he got into the flow of the game, or would he struggle trying to find some rhythm? There would be no way of knowing for sure with the small sample size that we've seen of Hill on those occasional & brief opportunities that he had in the past. Taysom probably earned a 'Good', but not 'Great' rating on Sunday. However, with the exception of his late game fumble during a truly stellar drive, there is no doubt that he improved tremendously as the game progressed... which is what Coach Payton needed to know about him.

Will Winston get the chance to show his skills in an entire game? Who can say? But for now it seems that unless Taysom gets hobbled in a game, I don't see Payton making any big changes in the lineup. If the coaching staff really believes that Taysom Hill has the potential to be Drew Brees' replacement, there's no better opportunity to prove their theory now so that there will be far less 'dice-throwing' when Drew finally does ride off into the sunset. The Saints have to know for sure what they have in these two players... even though they have already paid Hill like they have a pretty good idea. But the more they see how Jameis progresses, the easier it will be to know if Winston is part of the future of this team as well.

My popcorn is ready, and I can't wait to see how this drama unfolds in the months to come! :lurk:
Great write up! 👍

I also have to wonder that by using Taysom, he gets better and more comfortable and becomes even more lethal when replacing Drew in packages Going into the playoffs. His ultimate weapon!
 
Only one NFL coach offered him a contract for the bare minimum. What do people who want us to start him know that the people who make their living making these kind of decisions don't?
Actually, according to most reports, he was offered a few contracts for more money to be a backup, but chose to take what the Saints were offering so he could sit and learn from the best.
 
Just so there's a level field for discussion, Peyton vs Jameis - their first 5 years in the league - I posted this earlier but it was at the end of a thread. Why is the one so great and the other so bad?

Peyton Manning averaged 4,123.6 yards passing per year
Jameis Winston averaged 3,947.4 yards passing per year

Peyton 7.32 yards per attempt
Jameis 7.75 yards per attempt

Peyton avg td 27.6, avg interceptions 20.0, td/int ratio 1.38
Jameis avg td 24.2, avg interceptions 17.6, td/int ratio 1.375

Peyton avg sacs per season 21.6
Jameis avg sacs per season 33.8

Peyton avg rating 85.9
Jameis avg rating 87.4

They were both coached by Bruce Arians during their worst season for interceptions:
Peyton in 1998, 28
Jameis in 2019, 30

Peyton Manning played with running back Marshall Faulk in 1998 who was followed by Edgerrin James and two Hall of Fame wide receivers in Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. Winston had one wideout of note in Mike Evans but had weak support from the ground game after Doug Martin’s comeback year in 2015.

??????
That's a bad comparison. Grouping the first 5 years is misleading, because it doesn't tell you anything about the trend. Manning was not a good QB in his rookie year, but he got much better the next 2 years, before slipping on his 4th year, got better again in his 5th, and then made a leap in his 6th year. Jameis was a good rookie QB, but he has gotten worse every year, and last year was his worst by far. The question is was that due to Arians or Jameis. If he can correct his interception problem, then he'll be great. Ultimately, Peyton is considered great because he played great most of his career after the 5th year. If Jameis does anthing similar, then he will also be considered great. If Manning had continued to play at the level he played his first 5 years, he wouldn't have been considered an elite QB.
 
Thrown under what bus? In what universe does an NFL coach owe any player the starting role?
[/QUOTE
Didn't say anything about any coach oweing anything - I was referring to the views of several on this board - that's all. From what I have seen none of the criticisms have shown Jameis to be a poor quarterback, and Sean Payton seems quite pleased with his performance. Not the kind of reaction you would associate with a poor quarterback.
 
I'm so cute. Cuter than you can cope with.

Meanwhile, you've been provided with a boatload of reasons and measures by which he can be fairly judged, but yet you don't accept any of the
It's fine to believe in someone, but to blindly expect everyone else to agree with you is the cutest behaviour of all 😎
Did you ever get a 2nd chance or learning opportunity and you were better for it? Same premise. And if you said no,you're either a liar or 13. And your behavior is cute
 
He turns the ball over too much and has a tendency to throw high. I know that’s probably too simple of an answer given all the “he’s basically Peyton Manning” takes, but that’s basically his issues.

I suspect the decision to start Hill would not have been so easy for Payton had Winston not looked so reckless throwing the ball downfield during his recent relief work.

But apparently it wasn't an easy decision. If reports are true

Which makes u think. It was probably a promise before Jameis was even signed to give Hill a shot if Drew went down again. Yet it was STILL a hard decision to start him after Jameis is signed?????
 
Didn't say anything about any coach oweing anything - I was referring to the views of several on this board - that's all. From what I have seen none of the criticisms have shown Jameis to be a poor quarterback, and Sean Payton seems quite pleased with his performance. Not the kind of reaction you would associate with a poor quarterback.

A ) It would be throwing him under the bus if Payton was to say anything negative about the guy before Jameis has a chance to play (significant downs). And, Payton knows there is always a chance he will have to play Watson so of course, he isn't going to trash him and further shake his confidence.

B ) Here is my criticism list:
  1. Losing lifetime record.
  2. 1 for 5 winning seasons.
  3. His core deficiency is one that is hard to overcome.
  4. We are paying him $1 million (That's chump change) The storyline that he is basically working for free to study under Drew and Payton is silly. The first rule of Football is that careers can end in a second so make as much money as you can as fast as you can.
  5. Every coach in the NFL knows his record and has watched his film. None of them wanted him even at a bargain-basement salary.
  6. Winston's problem is that there actually are 5 years of film since he won the Heisman and went first overall.
  7. Picking and choosing this stat or that is fun but meaningless. Only his body of work matters.
  8. On the positive side QB's can and do improve, coaches matter as do teammates. So it is possible he has a bright future. (NOTE: Not many Taysom haters critics were willing to say the same about him for some reason. Seems they think Taysom's skills and flaws were cast in stone when he left BYU.)
  9. Lastly, so far, Payton has picked Taysom to be our replacement QB. Unless that changes I consider this to be the final indictment of Jameis Winston. And NO I don't buy the conspiracy theory that Payton is willing to risk losing games and is not playing a vastly superior Jameis so that other teams won't see how wonderful he is and poach him like they supposedly did with Teddy.
But what do I know. Just one fan's opinion.
 
Did you ever get a 2nd chance or learning opportunity and you were better for it? Same premise. And if you said no,you're either a liar or 13. And your behavior is cute
That's lovely, but also a sidetrack from the point being made. The OP asked a question, received lots of answers and didn't like any of them. Hence my comment.

For what it's worth, I hope the guy improves. It's not unprecedented. He's in a great learning situation. But his body of work to date has been poor. As people have more than adequately demonstrated.
 
Let's try a different tact. Seems I hear a lot of Jameis boosters talking about his arm. Not sure what part of his arm they are referring to. It can't be his ability to throw deep if you believe Football Outsiders Deep Ball Project as they ranked him dead last in the NFL 2018-2019.


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Steve Young was deemed a bust by the Bucs, so I think the jury is still out on Jameis.
What "facts" do you use to classify Jameis' "basic intelligence"? I didn't know so I researched and found the following article.

Not that the Wonderlic is all that wonderful, but...

"Jameis Winston reportedly scored a 27 on the Wonderlic test, putting him in a similar range as future Hall of Fame quarterback Peyton Manning.

Winston, according to a report from Yahoo's Charles Robinson, scored a 27 out of 50 on the aptitude test NFL teams use to measure the intelligence of potential prospects at the annual scouting combine.

That score – considered respectable for quarterbacks – put the former FSU QB one point lower than what Manning scored before he was drafted. It also put Winston on par with other Super Bowl-winning signal callers such as Drew Brees (28), Russell Wilson (28), Joe Flacco (27) and Ben Roethlisberger (25)."

This is a good read. Jameis' "basic intelligence" seems in par with the rest of the NFL jock QB's including Peyton in my opinion. Manziel scored a 32 and Brett Favre a 22. I'll stop right there. Lol


Mic drop
 
We are seeing that systems matter. Jameis has never had a Sean Payton that will design an attack to make him dangerous, while safely throwing the ball.

Arians just has his way of doing things and fans over in Tampa were asking for Jameis back week 3. They now see Tom will throw INTs at a huge clip, while not being protected

Jameis put up huge numbers in that system, 33TD, 5kyds, 2 Pro Bowl WRs....a partridge in a pair tree...bc the boy can throw.

Downside to Arians system, which Tom is experiencing...high risk...interceptions will remain high.
 
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