What measure makes Jameis a poor quarterback? (1 Viewer)

[Bob1234]

THAT IS THE PROBLEM, all you are talking about grabbing crotches, eating w's, stealing crab legs, which none of those have ANYTHING to do with being able to throw a football.

Just admit you have a personal dislike for him and that will be it, no worries. Hell I loathe tom brady for his pouty arse ways after a loss, not going to shake hands after a loss, etc.. but does that have anything to do with throwing a football? No

I have as many others have made several arguments about why he can improve on the field with the only argument yall respond with is 30 picks, 18 fumbles. When someone points out that the next response is crab legs. That right there says its a personal dislike when yall point to stupid sheet like that.

 

[Stalwart385]

That right there is just wrong. The steelers made an offer.

He was not offered a starter position. He was going to compete with their backups. Same as here.

 

[Stalwart385]

THAT IS THE PROBLEM, all you are talking about grabbing crotches, eating w's, stealing crab legs, which none of those have ANYTHING to do with being able to throw a football.

Just admit you have a personal dislike for him and that will be it, no worries. Hell I loathe tom brady for his pouty arse ways after a loss, not going to shake hands after a loss, etc.. but does that have anything to do with throwing a football? No

I have as many others have made several arguments about why he can improve on the field with the only argument yall respond with is 30 picks, 18 fumbles. When someone points out that the next response is crab legs. That right there says its a personal dislike when yall point to stupid sheet like that.

You should be careful with statements like "All of you". Dont throw anyone you disagree with in your bucket.

Those picks and fumbles do matter. Just as every other stat I've posted that shows he was a bottom 10 QB. The rest of that nonsense doesn't matter.

You don't have to dislike Jameis to be real about him. There is nothing wrong with thinking he can improve. There is something wrong with thinking he doesnt need to improve and is in the same league as HoF QBs.

 

[Bob1234]

If the rest doesn't matter why do yall keep bringing it up? Please answer that.
I never said he was HOF material, I never compared him to HOF players, I simply pointed out that some of those players, had some of the same negatives at some point in their career.

If you would bother to actually read my post, I stated that a new coach, new system and learning under a HOF quarterback could help him.

 

[Stalwart385]

If the rest doesn't matter why do yall keep bringing it up? Please answer that.
I never said he was HOF material, I never compared him to HOF players, I simply pointed out that some of those players, had some of the same negatives at some point in their career.

If you would bother to actually read my post, I stated that a new coach, new system and learning under a HOF quarterback could help him.

I would stop using "yall", because I never brought it up.

 

[Bob1234]

I would stop using "yall", because I never brought it up.

So out of everything I stated you cherry picked one quote that you could argue? You responded to my post that was originally never was directed at you, so in essence, yes you did bring it up.
I said yall because it sounds better than jameis haters.

Now show me where I said he didn't need to improve

 

[Stalwart385]

So out of everything I stated you cherry picked one quote that you could argue? You responded to my post that was originally never was directed at you, so in essence, yes you did bring it up.
I said yall because it sounds better than jameis haters.

Now show me where I said he didn't need to improve

I don't have an issue with the rest of your post. I'm simply stating be careful with using general statements. Many have pointed out the flaw with this thread. For pointing out that flaw they have been labeled Jameis haters. When you make a general statement like that you appear to be targeting anyone that disagrees with the original premise of the thread.

 

[rajncajn]

THAT IS THE PROBLEM, all you are talking about grabbing crotches, eating w's, stealing crab legs, which none of those have ANYTHING to do with being able to throw a football.

Actually, they do have something to do with it. They are real life displays of the same poor decision making skills and lack of leadership qualities that get him in trouble on the football field and I don't think that's something that can be coached out of him.

 

[Bob1234]

Everyone have fun, I'm removing myself from this thread. If you say maybe under a new coach and

Actually, they do have something to do with it. They are real life displays of the same poor decision making skills and lack of leadership qualities that get him in trouble on the football field and I don't think that's something that can be coached out of him.

You're getting into Psychology here. Again there have been a lot of quarterbacks that have thrown tons of pics early in their careers that have turned into HOF players. You can teach the mind but you cannot teach physical attributes, arm strength and things like that. Would you not agree? If you don't agree, then what is the point of education, fire all the teachers, close the schools and save me a sheet load of tax dollars. And if you are going to be like the last guy and say "I never said that" please don't respond because if you make a statement on the thread you are responding to the whole thread in one way or the other

 

[rajncajn]

Everyone have fun, I'm removing myself from this thread. If you say maybe under a new coach and

You're getting into Psychology here. Again there have been a lot of quarterbacks that have thrown tons of pics early in their careers that have turned into HOF players. You can teach the mind but you cannot teach physical attributes, arm strength and things like that. Would you not agree? If you don't agree, then what is the point of education, fire all the teachers, close the schools and save me a sheet load of tax dollars. And if you are going to be like the last guy and say "I never said that" please don't respond because if you make a statement on the thread you are responding to the whole thread in one way or the other

I'm getting into psychology because it's a psychological issue. I just don't think he has leadership qualities and is capable of making good decisions on the football field. It's nothing against Winston himself. I'm certain that he's grown past the childish things like stealing crab legs, but he's still got a long way to go to become a mature player and at the quarterback position that's not something you just learn with a few months with a good coach. He's got all the physical ability, i just don't think he's got the physiological capacity to make that leap to the next level. I'd still take Teddy over him any day.

 

[boutte]

Lord some of you are so miserable.

Are we really up to 10 pages of bashing one of our own players who came here to learn with Brees and SP and has been a complete team player. All he has done is help make sure we finished off the 49ers when Drew went out. He ahas been a completed professional and very supportive of the decision to give TH the ball. No pouting. No whining to media. Still fired up and a part of team on sidelines. His teammates all like him.

And yet here many of you are bashing him, a Saints player, minimizing both him as a person and his career, which has not been near as bad as you make it. He was not a bust. NFL bust at QB don’t leave their teams at 27 as the all time leaders in TD and yards passing, make pro bowls or have 121 TD passes after 5 years. He got pushed out for Tom freakin Brady and he wanted (and still wants to be) a Saint. He idolized Drew Brees growing up in Alabama

But go ahead keep on bashing one of your own players who has done nothing to deserve it.

That's ridiculous. People have watched Winston for five years and come to the conclusion that he's not reliable enough at this point. What is that makes you think everyone just decided for no reason that they don't want him as our QB? Could it be that both on and off the field the guy has been a train wreck?

He's a reclamation project, I hope they turn him into the next great QB but I ain't holding my breath.

 

[rtnelson]

I had hoped to be done with this thread, but since you complained about my lack of response, I felt compelled to show you the courtesy of responding to your latest. I can do nothing other than agree that if we place Jameis in the box you illustrated, then he is, obviously, a horrible quarterback.

I don't know your age but someone who is 30 years old would naturally consider 20 years to be a huge time span. Someone like me, with 7+ decades under my belt, not so much. So, you may understand why I would tend to discount the span between Peyton and Jameis.

I know that the game has changed over the years but it's hard to take a snapshot at any given time and try to account for the differences to make a comparison. That's why I ignored the "era" and just compared the raw numbers. If we were comparing to someone in the 1940-1960 time frame a consideration may be appropriate.

My comparison was simple - how many balls were thrown and how many caught and then comparing Jameis' performance to a known great quarterback - yes - I probably could have tried to account for such things as the proper inflation of the football at the time, but I didn't. In my mind 20 years is just a dipper-full in a bucket.

And, in my snapshot, Jameis fared pretty well, in yours, not so much. I understand that Jameis will never be a Peyton Manning or even begin to touch the heights of the goat himself, Drew Brees, he is more in the mold of a Brett Favre, and I still think he will have a great career. You have a different view and I respect that fact. It's not beyond my comprehension that you could be right. We'll have to wait and see.

One other thing I need to address - I did show the total number of fumbles by Jameis - right there with the list of other quarterback's fumbles - not trying to cover up anything.

In 2000 there were 3 QB's over 4000 yards. In 2019 there were 11. There were 13 above 3000 yeards, and in 2019 there were 25 (Not including drew brees, and when you account for injuries, basically every team has 3000+ passing yards.). To say the league hasn't changed because you can come up with a few stats that are comparable is a bit silly. Not to mention we all know that eye witness testimony is one of the worst, especially when it was 20 years ago. Outside of a few games here and there, I highly doubt you are watching regular season games from around the league from 20 years ago. Also do you recall all the talk before Manning won his first superbowl about how a pass happy offense couldn't get it done in the playoffs? I do.

While the league may evolve slowly it has definitely evolved in a big way, a little each year to where you don't really notice the change. If you lived in the time of the dinosaurs, all the way to now, you wouldn't have noticed any changes, and would be calling birds dinosaurs.

 

[ccss]

I still see this thread going and still see the OP trying to push his original statement.

The argument is flat wrong. The year in front of the stats is just as important as the stats themselves. Just as Gardner Minshew isn't better than Joe Montana.

I'll post the actual relevant numbers Winston put up in a sensible manner. Him ranked against his peers. (Green = Top 10, Red = Bottom 10)




Let's please be real.

(The headers should be Sack% and Fmbl)

My question at the outset was genuine and I think there have been some very good points made. My motivation was that so much negative was being said about Jameis with no reliable information to back it up, and everything I had looked at from his record showed him to be a pretty good quarterback. However, the illustration by Stalwart385 is hard to ignore. It certainly got my attention. At first I thought - well he's including stats from quarterbacks who started many fewer games and if it was restricted to only those who started 16 games, things would better line up in Jameis' favor- I did that, and nothing really changed.
To be clear, many statements have been made that seem to have been motivated by something other than poor performance, but we can't ignore solid data such as this.
Good job Stalwart385.
But, Jameis is now a Saint and despite the fact that he was #1, #2, and #3 in interceptions and on the lower end of completion percentage in the 3 years he and his peers played 16 games, he was also #2, #5, and #10 in ypa, and #1, #5, and #14 in total tds. I should add that he was also on the lower end of the quarterback rating against his peers..
Although I am more cautious, I am still hopeful that Sean Payton and the environment he is being exposed to will work to his and our benefit. Jameis is smart and has the talent to succeed.

 

[Ihartsaints]

My question at the outset was genuine and I think there have been some very good points made. My motivation was that so much negative was being said about Jameis with no reliable information to back it up, and everything I had looked at from his record showed him to be a pretty good quarterback. However, the illustration by Stalwart385 is hard to ignore. It certainly got my attention. At first I thought - well he's including stats from quarterbacks who started many fewer games and if it was restricted to only those who started 16 games, things would better line up in Jameis' favor- I did that, and nothing really changed.
To be clear, many statements have been made that seem to have been motivated by something other than poor performance, but we can't ignore solid data such as this.
Good job Stalwart385.
But, Jameis is now a Saint and despite the fact that he was #1, #2, and #3 in interceptions and on the lower end of completion percentage in the 3 years he and his peers played 16 games, he was also #2, #5, and #10 in ypa, and #1, #5, and #14 in total tds. I should add that he was also on the lower end of the quarterback rating against his peers..
Although I am more cautious, I am still hopeful that Sean Payton and the environment he is being exposed to will work to his and our benefit. Jameis is smart and has the talent to succeed.

You need to stop pretending to be neutral. You are obviously an ardent advocate for Jameis Winston. I don't understand why you don't own it and just state your case.

 

[ccss]

You need to stop pretending to be neutral. You are obviously an ardent advocate for Jameis Winston. I don't understand why you don't own it and just state your case.

There are so many wonderful benefits to be had by being an active member of saintsreport, this is just one example. Make a post and you get a free and certain analysis of your underlying mental motivation for the position you have taken, even though you may not have even been aware of that fact yourself. A benefit that would cost you dearly on the open market.