What to expect with the move to the 3-4: Personnel and Scheme (1 Viewer)

Love this thread! I have a major problems with 3 areas on defense that I haven't heard addressed and I know you don't have a crystal ball. NT, Rush LB & safety. I don't want to be argumentative but based on what I read Bunk/NT, Gilette/Rush LB, Harp SS based on money owed and productivity?
 
Love this thread! I have a major problems with 3 areas on defense that I haven't heard addressed and I know you don't have a crystal ball. NT, Rush LB & safety. I don't want to be argumentative but based on what I read Bunk/NT, Gilette/Rush LB, Harp SS based on money owed and productivity?


I hear ya. Here's how I see it:

IMO, Bunk is alot better than folks think. 1 gap or 2 gap, he will be OK at NT in the 3-4. He will be a 2 down NT and split some time there with Hicks. He could also see snaps at DE in the 3-4 as well. We'll add a big bodied NT, probably thru the draft, for depth, and the D line is all but set for the 3-4.


Playing OLB could be very good for Junior. IMO, he's a prototypical "Tweener". He was a lil undersized to be an every down DE in the 4-3, but has good size to play WOLB in the 3-4. The responsibility of WOLB spot in the 3-4 isnt too difficult, its mostly setting the edge against the run and edgerushing against the pass, with little coverage responsibilities. He's listed at 258. Dropping a few lbs, maybe down to 250 could help his quickness, as long as he maintains his strength( And itd be helluva if Hicks can be the "Justin Smith" for Junior against the pass). Still its a new position, so alot will depend on how well Junior adjusts to it. But will we draft an OLB to compete at that spot? IMO, if we draft/sign an OLB, it'll be to play the strongside.


Ryan plays his SS in the box, much like GW did, so that helps Harper. But in Ryans Cover 1, he doesnt blitz the safety much. The SS must be able to man up on a receiver. And thats just not Romans strength. Its why most also think (and count me in here) we should draft a S in the draft who's a big hitter AND can cover, or maybe bring in a vet at S. But Harper would cost too much if he's cut, so most everyone agrees he will restructure, and stay.

my 2 cents
 
Ryan plays his SS in the box, much like GW did, so that helps Harper. But in Ryans Cover 1, he doesnt blitz the safety much. The SS must be able to man up on a receiver. And thats just not Romans strength. Its why most also think (and count me in here) we should draft a S in the draft who's a big hitter AND can cover, or maybe bring in a vet at S. But Harper would cost too much if he's cut, so most everyone agrees he will restructure, and stay.

I really hope someone will trade for him for a 6th or 7th, but unfortunately I just don't see it happening.

Maybe triple snitch GW will want him back?
Please Gregg it's the least you owe us you sniveling coward.
 
I really hope someone will trade for him for a 6th or 7th, but unfortunately I just don't see it happening.

Maybe triple snitch GW will want him back?
Please Gregg it's the least you owe us you sniveling coward.

Lol @ Triple snitch.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
 
So, in the nuttiest of nutshells, the Saints are returning to the GgW defense but without the drama backstage?

Sold!
 
I really hope someone will trade for him for a 6th or 7th, but unfortunately I just don't see it happening.

Maybe triple snitch GW will want him back?
Please Gregg it's the least you owe us you sniveling coward.

At worst we could get a 4th for Harper and you guys are delusional if you think we'd trade him for anything less. We could probably get a 4th and 7th or a 3rd.
 
Ryan will adjust the scheme to fit the personnel (unlike Spags). I can see him running 46 BEAR as he has done in the past. That will allow Harper to play in the box almost as a 5th LB. He would excellent in that role. But the problem is that when you run the package you have to have a FS capable of playing center field. Jenkins is CLEARLY not that guy, and I am not confident that IAQ is either. IAQ may be able to play a cover two..but he has not demonstrated that he can patrol the entire back half of the field. Vaccaro actually makes a ton of sense, as much as it pains me to say it. I am more of an Elam fan...but FS far in away is a bigger need in my opinion.
 
Ryan will adjust the scheme to fit the personnel (unlike Spags). I can see him running 46 BEAR as he has done in the past. That will allow Harper to play in the box almost as a 5th LB. He would excellent in that role. But the problem is that when you run the package you have to have a FS capable of playing center field. Jenkins is CLEARLY not that guy, and I am not confident that IAQ is either. IAQ may be able to play a cover two..but he has not demonstrated that he can patrol the entire back half of the field. Vaccaro actually makes a ton of sense, as much as it pains me to say it. I am more of an Elam fan...but FS far in away is a bigger need in my opinion.

I think it's nearly impossible to judge any of our secondary players based on last year. They were being asked to play a scheme they clearly did not believe in and in roles that they did not seem best suited for. Harper was never going to be good as a deep SS in a cover 2 and a cover 2 does not really fit Jenkins well either since he seems to have issues tracking the ball. If you play those guys to their strengths, I think they will be fine, especially if you add in a real pass rush to protect them. Note, I did not say great, but fine. Neither at this point is really a great player, but they are both solid starters and both have at times have shown flashes of playmaking ability in different aspects of the game. So, all is not lost at safety with Harper and Jenkins.

At CB, Greer should be fine and I think Robinson too was being used in a system that did not fit his skills. He regressed last year when the year before he looked to be on the verge of turning the corner to become a very good cover CB. That said, even if we bring back Mack, there is not much behind those two at CB so we need to either draft or sign some guys at CB. Even if we play one of our safeties at that nickleback spot, we lack depth and youth at the position.

All of which is to say that every single position on our defense, except maybe Lofton and Cam Jordan, could use an upgrade with a playmaker. We are likely solid at every position and a good coach can turn this group into a middle of the road defense. But, we need playmakers to turn the corner to be a good defense. So, I'm hoping that in the draft and in free agency the staff is open to taking any defensive playmaker they can find (and afford) at any position on the defense.
 
I hear ya. Here's how I see it:

IMO, Bunk is alot better than folks think. 1 gap or 2 gap, he will be OK at NT in the 3-4. He will be a 2 down NT and split some time there with Hicks. He could also see snaps at DE in the 3-4 as well. We'll add a big bodied NT, probably thru the draft, for depth, and the D line is all but set for the 3-4.


Playing OLB could be very good for Junior. IMO, he's a prototypical "Tweener". He was a lil undersized to be an every down DE in the 4-3, but has good size to play WOLB in the 3-4. The responsibility of WOLB spot in the 3-4 isnt too difficult, its mostly setting the edge against the run and edgerushing against the pass, with little coverage responsibilities. He's listed at 258. Dropping a few lbs, maybe down to 250 could help his quickness, as long as he maintains his strength( And itd be helluva if Hicks can be the "Justin Smith" for Junior against the pass). Still its a new position, so alot will depend on how well Junior adjusts to it. But will we draft an OLB to compete at that spot? IMO, if we draft/sign an OLB, it'll be to play the strongside.


Ryan plays his SS in the box, much like GW did, so that helps Harper. But in Ryans Cover 1, he doesnt blitz the safety much. The SS must be able to man up on a receiver. And thats just not Romans strength. Its why most also think (and count me in here) we should draft a S in the draft who's a big hitter AND can cover, or maybe bring in a vet at S. But Harper would cost too much if he's cut, so most everyone agrees he will restructure, and stay.

my 2 cents



I think Ryan will fit his defense to these players and I think these players will play alot better in this defense...it seems to all fit with the current pieces already in place and we will really just need to add that NT and OLB Pass rusher as depth and potential starters behind Bunkley (NT) and Galette (OLB Pass rusher). I think moving Hicks to the DE spot will help Galette as a edge rusher because Hicks will be a tough block one on one and could occupy guys while Galette attacks the edge...Hicks and Jordan could become something of a Justin Smith and JJ Watt respectively on this defense being that Hicks can over power guys and Jordan can add that pass rush from the 3-4 DE spot like Watt...for those who want to argue that I'm saying our guys are as good as those guys...you totally missed my point.

The secondary will play alot better than they did under Spags where they did more standing around playing areas of the field leaving chunks of open areas if one guy didnt execute his correctly (which was often) to shadowing recievers and playing more man coverage..we have invested heavily in the secondary and these guys can do the job.
 
The secondary will play alot better than they did under Spags where they did more standing around playing areas of the field leaving chunks of open areas if one guy didnt execute his correctly (which was often) to shadowing recievers and playing more man coverage..we have invested heavily in the secondary and these guys can do the job.

I think that's particularly true with Robinson. He was forced to play passive last year and it's not really something he has done before or that he is good at. He is a physical press cover corner. He needs to be able to play physical with guys at the line and initiate contact within 5 yards of the line. He then has the speed and strength to turn and run with guys. But, when he is flat footed waiting for a guy to come to him, he seems to lack the quickness to turn and cover. And, he seemed to be confused by the scheme which caused him to hesitate and get caught out of position last year. Hopefully Ryan will use his athletic talents better and allow him to play with less reading and reacting.
 
Ryan will adjust the scheme to fit the personnel (unlike Spags). I can see him running 46 BEAR as he has done in the past. That will allow Harper to play in the box almost as a 5th LB. He would excellent in that role. But the problem is that when you run the package you have to have a FS capable of playing center field. Jenkins is CLEARLY not that guy, and I am not confident that IAQ is either. IAQ may be able to play a cover two..but he has not demonstrated that he can patrol the entire back half of the field. Vaccaro actually makes a ton of sense, as much as it pains me to say it. I am more of an Elam fan...but FS far in away is a bigger need in my opinion.

Actually Jenkins played a lot of cover 1 under GW and had 2 good seasons. Range is not an issue. He has extremely good range and plays better when attacking the ball in front of him. He doesn't have the anticipatory skills that Sharper had, but that 20 yards deep centerfielding... I think that suited him better than the 10-12 flat footed reads that he was making under spags playing quarters and 2.

Could explain why he suddenly became the worst tackler on the team this season.
 
Actually Jenkins played a lot of cover 1 under GW and had 2 good seasons. Range is not an issue. He has extremely good range and plays better when attacking the ball in front of him. He doesn't have the anticipatory skills that Sharper had, but that 20 yards deep centerfielding... I think that suited him better than the 10-12 flat footed reads that he was making under spags playing quarters and 2.

Could explain why he suddenly became the worst tackler on the team this season.

Scheme changes...goes from being aggresive to the ball to more cerebrale when attacking the ball...one lets you play free, the other makes you play hesitant if your not comfortable with it. I see the entire secondary playing better now that they will be going back to a more man press coverage and attacking style front 7 under Ryan.
 

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