What Would Jim Finks Do to Turnaround the Saints? (1 Viewer)

[SystemShock]

He wouldn't be allowed to comment on lousy Front Office'ing

 

[bradman1965]

Several people have mentioned it but Free Agency would not have been kind to a guy like Jim Finks.

 

[Swimmer]

Carolina: 2 winning seasons in the last 7 years. Finished worst in football once in that span, had an additional 10-loss season as well.

Ravens: Finished 5-11 last season. Fashionable to blame their demise on injuries, especially to Joe Flacco, but their D took a dump as well and the DC Dean Pees was widely reviled by their fans as the AFC’s Rob Ryan.

Vikings: 2 winning seasons in the last 6. 3 ten-loss seasons in that timespan. Defense wasn't even really anything special until Zimmer showed up.

Cincy: Hasn’t won a playoff game since 1990, thanks in large part due to the fact that Marvin Lewis doesn't know the definition of team discipline and Mike Brown is too cheap and/or lazy to get rid of him.

Houston: Oddly enough, the one team you listed then said to omit is one of the most successful on your list. Only 2 losing seasons and 3 playoff appearances since 2010. Future seems to be bright now that they've solidified the QB position with Osweiler.

Chiefs: Last year was their first playoff win since 1993. In total, the franchise has 4 playoff wins since the merger. Was the worst team in the NFL in 2012 and had a fair amount of instability before Reid and Smith showed up.

Obviously, I didn’t list Denver, NE and Seattle, the three actual perennial contenders on your list. All three of those teams have an elite QB, none of them have been afraid to spend and take risks on offense (see Harvin, Percival and Graham, James for examples from Seattle that have worked out about as well as our recent FA busts.) All have had exceptional secondaries, Seattle’s defense is predominantly secondary-focused as I've pointed out numerous times on this board.

I know there is this persistent fantasy amongst some on this board that there is this mountain of teams that have built dynasties over the last several years by focusing exclusively on “fundamentals” and eschewing flashy things like a competent passing game and an elite secondary. The reality is, you’re just as likely or more to build a Buffalo or Jets with that approach as you are to build a contender. As my pastor likes to say, “The grass may look greener on the other side, but it could be that the yard is amply fertilized with dog poop…”

Good stuff Sunshine! I tend to disagree with a number of your points, but I agree with a number of points you made - thx. But here's the telling stat. In the last 20 years, 16 of the 20 SB winners have been defensive powerhouses. Only 4 were offensive powerhouses. FInks main formula still holds true.

 

[Swimmer]

I appreciate what Finks and Mora accomplished here. A bit of respectability for a franchise that never had any.

I also like Aaron Brooks but I don't entertain thoughts of his giving advice to Brees on how he could improve his game.

Finks' strategy was successful in building a team that was competitive in the regular season. It made watching the Saints more exciting. That was the peak, though. If we are going to entertain ideas about Finks' approach to managing the Saints, isn't it fair to weigh that against the outcome, and likewise, do the same for Payton and Loomis?

Good point about comparing Loomis and SP strategies to Finks. But Finks took the Vikings to three SBs, won the SB with the Bears and won the CFL Championship. We will never know, but his cancer likely killed his ability to up the Saints 1 to 2 more notches, but then again, he may not have.

 

[Swimmer]

Several people have mentioned it but Free Agency would not have been kind to a guy like Jim Finks.

I keep hearing that, but the Pats adopted his talent strategy, "Sell High buy Low" to a large degree. But as another poster said, Finks may have had no interest in coaching in this new era.

 

[DavidM]

Good point about comparing Loomis and SP strategies to Finks. But Finks took the Vikings to three SBs, won the SB with the Bears and won the CFL Championship. We will never know, but his cancer likely killed his ability to up the Saints 1 to 2 more notches, but then again, he may not have.

Finks was with the team from 1986 through the draft of 1993. By then, the team had peaked and it already felt like they squandered their best post-season chances with the vaunted defense of that era.

 

[HobBeh]

Good point about comparing Loomis and SP strategies to Finks. But Finks took the Vikings to three SBs, won the SB with the Bears and won the CFL Championship. We will never know, but his cancer likely killed his ability to up the Saints 1 to 2 more notches, but then again, he may not have.

Maybe had Finks let the team tank with Fourcade in 1990 the Saints could maybe have drafted the offensive weapons they lacked.


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[St.Fury]

Finks didn't account for the passionate anger of a Cajun scorned.

I waited and waited for Hebert to make an impact play like that in a crooshal situation with the Saints and he only ever choked. Of course he did it for the Falcons.

Still, he didn't set the world on fire for Atlanta. He was competent. We always needed better at QB.

Bobby Hebert was a lot like Jake Delhome, except Jake didn't start when he was with us. Although he probably should have started those last few games that Brooks was injured but still played.

 

[Domefan504]

Finks liked his cigarettes. The man knew how to smoke a pipe too.

 

[Richard]

He would hope that the NFL's rival league would fold, so the Saints' head coach could lure a few of their best players to New Orleans. He would allow the best return man in football to leave in free agency, since no one would pay the kind of money he wants for a return man. He would give up a couple of year's worth of premium draft picks to acquire a QB, so he doesn't have to pay the pretty good QB he already has. He would trade the NFL's defensive player of the year for a high first round pick, then try to replace him with a tweener that wasn't big enough to play DE and couldn't play in space like a LB (OK, that first round pick turned into Willie Roaf, so I'll give him a pass).

All sarcasm aside, Finks did some good things and some bad things, as all GMs will. It's just that the bad things still gnaw at me so much that I can't get to the good things.

 

[Buickman]

I think coming in and taking stock he would talk to Payton and get input but he would end up saying "I'm hiring someone I trust to rebuild the defense from bottom up, and I've got final say on personnel decisions. I will hear your viewpoint on needs but you're going to work and cooperate with the new DC and accept my decisions, right?"

I'm not sure because he allowed Mora to keep Carl Smith during all of that time. Finks came in with a clean slate and hired a Head Coach. I'm not sure if it was Finks or Mora that hired Dom Capers.

Either way Finks had it easy in Chicago and with the Saints since he didn't have to deal with a salary cap. Who knows how he would have reacted with a cap.

 

[Mikie17]

If Finks was the GM, Drew would have not got that $100M contract with the Saints. He would have walked. He probably would have fixed the defense thou....

 

[Swimmer]

Bobby Hebert was a lot like Jake Delhome, except Jake didn't start when he was with us. Although he probably should have started those last few games that Brooks was injured but still played.

Hey Fury - Finks was a mystery to me about QBs. He won a SB with McMahon in Chicago. That may have been the best defense in the modern era. But McMahon was in no way an upper tier QB. In fact, he was considered a head case. In Minnesota, he let Tarkington go, then hired him back for a song and in total took them to 3 SBs.

 

[Goatman Saint]

Finks in New Orleans was and is overrated. Most of the talent in that Saints team was put in place under Bum. The rest were guys that Mora was familiar with from the USFL.

Mora has never really gotten the credit he is due because of his lack of playoff wins, but the guy did more with less than almost other coaches.


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[St.Dan]

Finks in New Orleans was and is overrated. Most of the talent in that Saints team was put in place under Bum. The rest were guys that Mora was familiar with from the USFL.

Mora has never really gotten the credit he is due because of his lack of playoff wins, but the guy did more with less than almost other coaches.


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This.

Bum indeed drafted the core of the Dome Patrol in just one draft -- Jackson, Warren and Wilks. And count Mills and Johnson as having been chosen in the "supplemental draft" of USFL players BEFORE Mora was the coach. The fatal flaw in Bum's thinking was not having a competent, young QB to throw to a batch of WR's who weren't exactly flashy but definitely wasted, ability-wise. Might have made play-action work even in a run-first offense. Dave Wilson is usually mentioned among the crumb-bum quarterbacks in team history, but truly it was never HIS team. Got injured in the '82 preseason, then came Old Man Kenny. Then came Almost Old Man Todd. Then came the Cajun Cannon, who, ironically, had his limited abilities wasted under Mora/Smith.