Analysis Who will be GUARD'ing the fort on the right side of the Saints O-Line this coming season? Let's take a look! (1 Viewer)

[PuddinheadSr]

Great write-up. I must say though, Peat is still just as big a problem. I think you are overselling him. Peat's PFF grade is 5 points lower than Ruiz's (52.1 vs. 57.6). As you said PFF grade isn't everything but you don't get in the low 50s by being 98% Pro-Bowl.

Three. Pro Bowls for Peat, that is.

 

[Cougar 2]

Like many Saints fans, I’ve been down on Ruiz. That said, goin into his 3rd year, at the least, the former #1 pick will still likely make the team as a backup C/G.

But the Saints rehired Doug Marrone as their new O line Coach. Marrone favors more man blocking schemes over da zone schemes we’ve been running the last few years. Seems he’s also gonna have Zack working with the OTs, n Marrone himself will b working wit the Guards n Centers. I look for Marrone to do his best to teach, develop n esp “push” Ruiz…HARD!!!

That said, Ruiz will likely b the starter at RG goin into TC. But Ima look for Marrone to find somebody to “compete” with him for his starting spot!



Stay tuned on this one, y’all!!!

 

[sfidc3]

I think Hurst might be the guy (at least to challenge) considering he signed a 3 year extension. What do you think about the way he's built J? This is a bit of personal/scouting preference coming through, but I think we have a girth issue (for lack of a better word) on the interior line. A lot of 6'5 310, tackle types, and not enough 6'3 340 wide load trucks.

Again, it's a little trivial. But when I was watching the Lamp film I couldn't help but notice how high and light he looked (again, 90% technique, but I latch onto the body type).

Agreed, you mentioned Jahri and Nicks earlier, Jahri was 325 and Nicks was 345….absolute road graders….we don’t have that type of G now. But I haven’t given up on Ruiz yet, I’m hoping he steps up this TC and shows he can be a quality NFL G….and if not then the best man wins the job….we will see….

 

[Randy Jones]

Guards that are lighter in size favor zone blocking because of the movement skills needed. As long as the Saints have Kamara and Ingram, I believe they will run a zone scheme. In passing, they have to be technically sound if they lack sand in the butt.

That said, there was an article about Ruiz that indicated he was partially injured last year and that may have affected his development. Its too early to throw in the towel on him.

 

[spflash]

At this point, Cesar Ruiz is in danger of becoming a journeyman backup unless he has a good year this year, that should be his motivation going forward. Not that there is anything wrong with that btw, a lot of players have longstanding careers being a "insert random position here" career backup, but when you have that label of "former 1st round selection" attached to said player, its more indicative of being a bust or underachiever, more than anything else. Despite the fact that the team lost Armstead, i still believe he has a stout line surrounding him, he doesnt have to be Carl Nicks or Jahri Evans, he just has to be a productive, dependable starter, noone is or should be asking for a Pro Bowl type season (despite the fact that when you are drafted in the 1st round, those are the levels the front office rightfully expects out of that player at some point in their career).

edit: if he does in fact get beat out in camp for the starting position opposite Peat, hes officially a bust

 

[Domeination]

When we drafted Ruiz, he looked a bit undersized to me, which I agree is part of the problem. However, a bigger part of the problem has been too many pass plays where he is standing upright looking around for someone to block while the QB is getting sacked. I'm hoping Marrone can help him both fix his technique (hand placement, footwork, stance, punch) and learn the blocking schemes better. He gets particularly confused on stunts. Going into his third year with his first full offseason to train with position coaches as well as the strength and conditioning coach, he should be able to improve.

 

[Dan in Lafayette]

The fascination is probably because when he was a backup here he performed extremely well in the role. Well enough to become a fan favorite and earn a fairly fat contract in Houston, anyway. He was quality depth that could start at guard or tackle without the OL missing a beat at the time. I have no idea if he still has it, but the fact that no one has signed him this offseason is a bit telling. Still, I think he at least earned a tire kicking.

I do get what you are saying, but there is not much out there in FA at the guard position to say "we gotta get this guy", right now. Not unless you want to go after a UFA OT like Duane Brown, or Riley Rieff as one-year rentals and try moving Penning inside for a season, which I don't see happening. I would probably look at moving a current OT like Landon Young inside. He's a tough big 'ol boy that can drive defensive lineman back and win one-on-one's, and may be better suited to play guard in the NFL. More the type that TCU Dan likes, I think.

Like you Andrus, I think PFF grades can be used as a starting point for comparison purposes. If a player scores in the 70s, it is probably safe to say that he is a better player than one scoring in the 50s. Young graded out at 46.3, but that was only on 62 snaps.

As to RAS scores, over the past several years, it's obvious we are targeting players with great athleticism. When evaluated as a tackle,Young scored a very solid 9.18. But when evaluated as a guard, he scored an even better 9.66.





A move to guard could be in his future.

 

[Domeination]

As to RAS scores, over the past several years, it's obvious we are targeting players with great athleticism.

Ireland is a big believer in the RAS scores. There were three themes in this year's draft:
1) players who have a high RAS score for their position;
2) players who are leaders;
3) players who fill a team need.

My understanding is the team will compromise on one aspect of the RAS score (e.g., ideal size for a player) if other variables are so high they compensate and produce an overall outstanding score. Obviously, the high score is expected for early round picks, but I find they emphasize the RAS score even with later round picks.

Take Olave, for instance, who doesn't have the ideal composite size grade, but has an elite speed grade. When you combine his speed with his fluid and precise route running, short area quickness, strong hands, high self-motivation, and college production, he is a top prospect.

When you look at Ruiz's RAS score, he is also supposed to be an elite player. Will he become an example of how RAS doesn't tell the whole story, or will he develop in his third year into the player the Saints envisioned him to be?

 

[Geldo]

Great analysis and a fabulous read...plus insightful comments after....
Always think it's so hard to assess o line play because any breakdown anywhere on the line can cause a TFL.

Seem to remember everyone praising Max Montoya the Bengals All Pro guard of the 80s and some believing he was almost as good as the legendary Anthony Munoz who he played alongside
When he switched to the Raiders the verdict was he's good but oh boy Munoz was so good he made him look great

 

[Mr. Coach Klein]

I don't get PFF at times either. I used it for reference because, well, there isn't any other measure out there to gauge player performance that is considered credible. At least not that I am aware of,

The Saints must not take much stock in PFF's grades, as they signed OL Josh Andrews, who has never graded well, and they have Senio Kelemente in for a tryout after his 40.0 grade last season. Hopefully he was playing hurt or something, because I am certainly a Kelemente fan.

Pro-football-reference.com has a number on a players performance per season. Like around a 17 is a HOF level. Above a 12 or so would be considered all pro. It has its limitations and faults just like PFF, but it's another tool available.

For reference Lamp's only season he played 16 was a 7 which is like a quality starter. Ruiz avg is 5.5 over 2 years. Peat is a 7.4 avg. Ramczyck is a 13.75 avg not counting last year where he was injured.

 

[Belfast Saint]

Great analysis and a fabulous read...plus insightful comments after....
Always think it's so hard to assess o line play because any breakdown anywhere on the line can cause a TFL.

Seem to remember everyone praising Max Montoya the Bengals All Pro guard of the 80s and some believing he was almost as good as the legendary Anthony Munoz who he played alongside
When he switched to the Raiders the verdict was he's good but oh boy Munoz was so good he made him look great

I remember wanting to be a left tackle after watching Munoz play. That feels like a while ago now. I never did play left tackle, but I did at least manage to get the no. 78 jersey in high school.

I think the hardest part about evaluating OL play is combination blocks. It's such an intricate interplay and hard to know sometimes where the fault lies (most) when it breaks down. It's generally down to a matter of degree. But it's all pretty subjective, even when the assignments are pretty straighforward to understand, and being consistent and unbiased is difficult.

 

[BikesBurgersBeer]

Offensive line is the group I'm most curious about going into the year. Lots of questions marks and things to figure out. Marrone is the guy to get it sorted though.

Thanks for the writeup. Had a restless night and it distracted me better than wrestling stuff, hockey, food stuff and apex legends.

 

[Domeination]

Offensive line is the group I'm most curious about going into the year.

I really think whether the Saints can make a deep run in the playoffs comes down to the O line, the wildcard being injuries to key players. (We can't lose the starting QB again.) If the O line plays well, the Saints will be a tough out.

 

[BensonJr]

I don't get PFF at times either. I used it for reference because, well, there isn't any other measure out there to gauge player performance that is considered credible. At least not that I am aware of,

The Saints must not take much stock in PFF's grades, as they signed OL Josh Andrews, who has never graded well, and they have Senio Kelemente in for a tryout after his 40.0 grade last season. Hopefully he was playing hurt or something, because I am certainly a Kelemente fan.

Great write up. I completely agree with you on PFF. Just a decent data point. I was an technology analyst for 10 years so I do have some background into how analysts work and can have a decent idea of when a firm, like a PFF, is giving out solid analysis or not.

First thing I notice is that they really don't mention the experience and background of their analysts that give these scores. When I clicked on their open positions and read what they were looking for, there was no requirement for having worked as a coach or scout at any level. They just ask that you have a "strong understanding of football and experience working with football data." Based off of that, I think everyone on this board would qualify to work at PFF.

Their focus is to quantity over quality. They have to review most likely 30 players that played in a game multiplied by 32 teams so they have close to 1000 scores and write ups to publish each week. They have to get it out extremely quickly so there will likely not be much study of the game. They will probably watch the video once and take notes but its very unlikely that they will study the tape or review in detail. The most critical thing it to get the data out quickly while the games are still fresh in peoples minds. Media uses PFF numbers as its a nice value add to compliment their article or show even if it's not very accurate. If someone like Nick Underhill or TCU Dan actually gave out scores, I think their analysis would be much more accurate than what PFF publishes.