Who won tonight’s quarterback battle? (1 Viewer)

[DavidM]

Let's face it, those two TD catches by Callaway really made Jameis look like a HOF'er. But if Callaway was unable to haul in those tight passes, the talk right now might be about how Winston tried to force passes to a well covered (even double-covered) receiver.

I believe Jameis did earn the starting job. But it was less about those two 'answered prayers' than it was about the rest of the good reads & passes that he pulled off during his time in the game. He is hungry and he seems to be ready to break out with running Sean Payton's style of offense. And no one can ask any more of him than that.

Both were perfectly thrown passes where only the receiver could make a play on the ball. The confidence - in himself and in Callaway - that went into making those throws is extremely encouraging. Winston is in a competition that is going to profoundly shape his future in the NFL. He could have played timidly in the hopes of not making a glaring mistake. With everything at stake, he wasn’t afraid to pull the trigger and the execution was spot on. Twice. A lot more of that, please.

 

[JackDiesel]

Let's face it, those two TD catches by Callaway really made Jameis look like a HOF'er. But if Callaway was unable to haul in those tight passes, the talk right now might be about how Winston tried to force passes to a well covered (even double-covered) receiver.

I believe Jameis did earn the starting job. But it was less about those two 'answered prayers' than it was about the rest of the good reads & passes that he pulled off during his time in the game. He is hungry and he seems to be ready to break out with running Sean Payton's style of offense. And no one can ask any more of him than that.

Go watch that first play again. Underhill had a good breakdown but you couldn't be more wrong about throwing it into double coverage. The safety that was there bit on the underneath route which is when Winston threw it. The CB that was supposed to be covering the zone was late getting over there which is who you see coming in at the last second. Perfect play design and perfect ball placement.

The 2nd pass was against a blitz with no safety help over top. Winston identified the one on one matchup and with pressure coming in his face threw another perfectly placed ball against a CB who was a highly coveted FA.

Even if both balls are incomplete they were 100% the right decision. Fans might not see that and think it changes the narrative but the coaches see it.

 

[Bill]

Both were perfectly thrown passes where only the receiver could make a play on the ball. The confidence - in himself and in Callaway - that went into making those throws is extremely encouraging. Winston is in a competition that is going to profoundly shape his future in the NFL. He could have played timidly in the hopes of not making a glaring mistake. With everything at stake, he wasn’t afraid to pull the trigger and the execution was spot on. Twice. A lot more of that, please.

I totally agree.
His confidence and his ball placement was excellent. I'm especially glad that Callaway made those catches mainly because it tends to boost the confidence of the entire offense. And it also puts the opposing defenses on notice that they will now have to cover the entire field... all the time!

 

[Bill]

Go watch that first play again. Underhill had a good breakdown but you couldn't be more wrong about throwing it into double coverage. The safety that was there bit on the underneath route which is when Winston threw it. The CB that was supposed to be covering the zone was late getting over there which is who you see coming in at the last second. Perfect play design and perfect ball placement.

The 2nd pass was against a blitz with no safety help over top. Winston identified the one on one matchup and with pressure coming in his face threw another perfectly placed ball against a CB who was a highly coveted FA.

Even if both balls are incomplete they were 100% the right decision. Fans might not see that and think it changes the narrative but the coaches see it.

Winston definitely made the correct reads on those plays and put the ball where it had to be. The two defenders that were there when the ball arrived actually had to interfere in hopes of stopping a scoring play. My comment was more about what folks might be saying if Callaway wasn't able to haul in the pass. Jameis did his job well.

 

[sfidc3]

Both were perfectly thrown passes where only the receiver could make a play on the ball. The confidence - in himself and in Callaway - that went into making those throws is extremely encouraging. Winston is in a competition that is going to profoundly shape his future in the NFL. He could have played timidly in the hopes of not making a glaring mistake. With everything at stake, he wasn’t afraid to pull the trigger and the execution was spot on. Twice. A lot more of that, please.

So much this....don't take anything away from them then. See them for what they were, perfectly thrown balls where only the WR has a chance to snag them. Everything else is just noise....

Of course this doesn't mean he is going to be great this season, I don't think any rational poster would automatically assume that....but it is, very encouraging.....

 

[BahGoonSa]

I see you take pride in arguing the middle ground. However, I think a couple of things are worth noting. One, this is supposed to be a competition for the starting QB position. Hence, the competition will be judged on relatively small sample size, not a whole season. The amount of public info we have on Taysom is greater than Jameis. The only information we will get on Jameis, for purposes of this competition, will be limited to the preseason and the practice field since he has been in the building. When Russell Wilson beat out Flynn as a rookie Pete did not have some crystal ball that this guy would lead them to a Super Bowl win but he made a decision on what he saw in camp and the preseason. Two, Jameis has done all the things that are expected of him. He has bought into the team concept and worked on building relationships with his teammates (people talk about those great catches but no one mentions that he worked with these guys in the offseason) and growing as a QB. A decision has to be made on a limited amount of information and I do not see at this point how it can be anything other than we role with Jameis as the starting QB and see where it gets us.

All good points. Except for the elephant in the room. We all know Payton is intrigued by Taysom's unique skill set and has been for years. In addition, the League is embracing more mobile QB's.

As you point out the passing samples size we have for both is limited. That isn't so for Taysom's rushing production. I don't know where you personally would place him but he is probably top 5 among all current starting QB's.

So how does Payton weigh that?

I guess we will find out.

If Jameis had been consistently better in practices then Monday's stellar performance would be the nail in the Taysom coffin. But he has been up and down almost every other day. So Payton and you and I, if we are being honest, have to decide if Monday was an anomaly or Jameis's new normal.

I tried to show statistically why two such deep TD's in a quarter or even a game is a rare event for any QB.

One could even make the argument that Jameis hurt his case. Payton might consider the throws were risky and evidence that Jameis is still the No Risk-It No Biscuit gambler.

They were nice throws though.

 

[SoggyBottomBoy]

One could even make the argument that Jameis hurt his case. Payton might consider the throws were risky and evidence that Jameis is still the No Risk-It No Biscuit gambler.

They were nice throws though.

Nope. See Jack Diesel's previous post. Aside from the pinpoint throws and great catches, they were the proper reads. That, to me, is just as exciting as the execution of the plays.

 

[BBarnes]

winston had sloppy mechanics in tampa. Winston worked tirlessly with drew brees qb coach this offseason to correct that. Even buc fans are noticing a difference in his mechanics and footwork

I’m not sure if you meant to use your response to my response as it didn’t have anything to do with one word in my response. Sorry just confused

 

[BBarnes]

Winston look better running the 2s vs. Baltimore than Hill did vs. Jags
Winston look better running the 1s vs. Jags than Hill did vs. Baltimore.

Winston perfectly read a cover 3 zone and diced them.Those passes had pinpoint accuracy and he don't understand certain like 0 blitz. It's situation where they brute force blitzing more man than we have to block. Winston called an audible and changed Calloway route. It was a perfect anticipation spot throw. Winston was throwing to the pylon. The WR did his job, but Winston made a fantastic elite QB play.

Also, Winston checkdown. He also protected Harris by throwing low in a crowd of 3 defenders. There was so many great little moment with Winston.

If some people can get past their disdain and just watch film. Winston played great just as much Calloway did

Agreed!

 

[BBarnes]

I stopped reading at I stopped reading. I see no basis for a conversation if neither chooses to read the other's post.

Then post accurate information that brings relevance instead of just throwing a bunch of useless info down that has no relevance just to try and sound smart.

You could just say, I was wrong about Winston so far.

 

[AmericanHeroJameis]

Then post accurate information that brings relevance instead of just throwing a bunch of useless info down that has no relevance just to try and sound smart.

You could just say, I was wrong about Winston so far.

a lot of people were wrong about winston, look at this. i mean i know its preseason. But i have never seen winstons pff grade this high ever

 

[No2DC]

All good points. Except for the elephant in the room. We all know Payton is intrigued by Taysom's unique skill set and has been for years. In addition, the League is embracing more mobile QB's.

As you point out the passing samples size we have for both is limited. That isn't so for Taysom's rushing production. I don't know where you personally would place him but he is probably top 5 among all current starting QB's.

So how does Payton weigh that?

I guess we will find out.

If Jameis had been consistently better in practices then Monday's stellar performance would be the nail in the Taysom coffin. But he has been up and down almost every other day. So Payton and you and I, if we are being honest, have to decide if Monday was an anomaly or Jameis's new normal.

I tried to show statistically why two such deep TD's in a quarter or even a game is a rare event for any QB.

One could even make the argument that Jameis hurt his case. Payton might consider the throws were risky and evidence that Jameis is still the No Risk-It No Biscuit gambler.

They were nice throws though.

He's started 4 games at QB, what?
If you have been paying attention to practice reports he's thrown more TDs than Taysom. Yes, throwing 2 long TDs is an anomaly but he has outperformed Taysom every preseason game. Baltimore-- TH 0 points while at QB (1 INT, no TD). JW-- 14 points while at QB (1 TD thrown, 1 int)
Jac-- JW 14 points, TH-- 7 points

 

[BahGoonSa]

Nope. See Jack Diesel's previous post. Aside from the pinpoint throws and great catches, they were the proper reads. That, to me, is just as exciting as the execution of the plays.

I was being sarcastic. However, I stand on firm ground that it is a statistical flyer. Jameis took a chance and he beat the odds.

Apparently, I failed to make a simple point. I must be a glutton for punishment because I'm trying again.

Last three years in Tampa stats for all passes that traveled more than 30 yards in the air past the line of scrimmage. I chose this range because it covers both throws Jameis completed on Monday.

2017 23 Attempts 4 Completions 17% 2 TDs 1 Interception​

2018 17 Attempts 6 Completions 35% 2 TDs 3 Interception​

2019 38 Attempts 12 Completions 31% 4 TDs 1 Interception​

​

Total 78 Attempts 22 Completions 28% 8 TDs 5 Interception​

3 Years and 38 games produced only 8 TD passes comparable to the two he completed on Monday.

2 such TD passes in one-quarter of play vs 8 TDs in 38 games

If you still don't get how unusual Monday was I give up.

 

[AmericanHeroJameis]

I was being sarcastic. However, I stand on firm ground that it is a statistical flyer. Jameis took a chance and he beat the odds.

Apparently, I failed to make a simple point. I must be a glutton for punishment because I'm trying again.

Last three years in Tampa stats for all passes that traveled more than 30 yards in the air past the line of scrimmage. I chose this range because it covers both throws Jameis completed on Monday.

2017 23 Attempts 4 Completions 17% 2 TDs 1 Interception​

2018 17 Attempts 6 Completions 35% 2 TDs 3 Interception​

2019 38 Attempts 12 Completions 31% 4 TDs 1 Interception​

​

Total 78 Attempts 22 Completions 28% 8 TDs 5 Interception​

3 Years and 38 games produced only 8 TD passes comparable to the two he completed on Monday.

2 such TD passes in one-quarter of play vs 8 TDs in 38 games

If you still don't get how unusual Monday was I give up.

that goes back to mechanics and footwork, winston has been working with drew brees qb coach this offseason and their is no hitch in his throws anymore

 

[BahGoonSa]

He's started 4 games at QB, what?
If you have been paying attention to practice reports he's thrown more TDs than Taysom. Yes, throwing 2 long TDs is an anomaly but he has outperformed Taysom every preseason game. Baltimore-- TH 0 points while at QB (1 INT, no TD). JW-- 14 points while at QB (1 TD thrown, 1 int)
Jac-- JW 14 points, TH-- 7 points

I'm not disagreeing with you. A QB with 70 plus games as a starter should be more polished, composed, quicker, and in a word better than a guy who started 4 games in an emergency.

The rub is that Jameis wasn't all that much better according to many observers.

Is it possible that Payton thinks Taysom can make up most of that ground with a year of experience as the starter? And then you add in the rushing.