Why Aren't You a Muslim? (1 Viewer)

[Scorpius the Allfather]

What were asserting is that if you were never told of a god you would never come to that conclusion. It's pretty simple really, and when you can deduce how such a fable came to be, you can dismiss it as a fable. It's the same reason you don't believe in Zeus.

I just can't believe that everything sprang from nothing without someone causing it. I don't care what scientists theorize, they cannot 100 percent explain how the universe came to be. It's impossible. Easiest explanation is that a being with God-like powers created everything. How? But everything from nothing? How do you explain that?

 

[abnrgr]

Obviously they were there. Do not question the scientists unbeliever, it is a matter of faith.

 

[DefKhan1]

But aren't you muslim? I mean how is it easy to shrug off all the other absurdity (god created universe, literally from clay, etc), but take the rest (there is a god at all) at face value? What part of that isn't cherry picking?

All Muslims don't have to believe the same thing, just as all Christians don't believe the same exact thing. Islam (the Western Hemisphere's news fodder version) today may be dominated by backwards blood thirsty mullahs, but throughout history, especially in the early years, Islamic civilization was the cradle of knowledge and scientific discovery.
There are still plenty of Muslims who are educated and understand things like analogy and allegory.

quotes only because I don't have a lot of time online tonight:

The Qur'an declares that in the very beginning the whole universe (heavens and the earth and what is suspended between them) was in the form of a single entity which may be referred as the proposed "singularity". "Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?" Imam Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (839-923 CE) quoted Ibn 'Abbas - the Companion of the Last Prophet of Islam Muhammad ,that the heavens and the earth were united and joined together.

The Qur'an describes a dynamic model of the universe instead of static one. In a number of narratives it mentions that all the celestial bodies like the sun, the moon, the stars and the planets are floating in a Falak (Arabic:فل&#1603.[10] The Arabic term Falak generally refers to a circular orbit, Yusuf Ali translates that term as "rounded course".

It has been clearly mentioned in the Qur'an that Allah the Lord of the Worlds is expanding the universe continuously.`"We have constructed the heaven with might, and verily, it is We who are steadily expanding it"(51:47)

 

[DefKhan1]

does this work on a micro-level? Does the rationalization carry over?


Take what you feel about creation and take it to every day life, is it congruent?
Does the explanation used for creation also hold fast to how you understand cellular biology? The "God created the big bang" theory feels good, but it sounds like we're all some toy that god was excited to play with at first then he got bored quickly and left us in the corner (and ignored).

We used to think physical ailments were caused by sin. "Well how does that work?" Then we rationalized that that the "evil spirits" vexed humans to sap the health of their physical being. Upon, learning the scientific method, we learned that bacteria breaks down the cellular homeostasis of our body, throwing our body's pH for a loop and our body, built to survive, begins fighting that bacteria. .....after being confronted by a rational explanation, we mash and shape our previous unfounded assertion to take the intelligence of the science and apply it to our earlier hoodoo ("the evil spirits manifest themselves as bacteria...")

If the earth was only 6,000 years old, adaptation to develop humans seems ridiculous......but when you understand what adapation/evolution actually is and how cellular biology works, the notion of a "survival of the fittest" becomes apparent over billions of years. When you divorce your mindset of exceptionalist mentality (we exist because we're just so damn good) it becomes revealed how things actually work. When you realize there are no "inherent rights" to exist, you can see that things don't happen by accident, but are brought about by necessity and efficiency

*Believe what you want to believe, good on ya...just trying to better understand how folks think. I've sincerely enjoyed andregurov and khan in this thread even though we don't fundamentally agree on things (and thats all good).

Islam, as far as I've been taught, never had the "6000 years" aging for humans, as far as I could tell.
In the middle ages, various Muslim scientist contemplated evolution and even Darwin's theory of evolution was published by Arabs before Darwin was ever born.
I remember reading about a Muslim scientist named Tusi who even discussed how humans were probably higher forms of apes.
Scientific thought USED to be encouraged without control, but due to poverty, corruption, ignorance and cultural infiltration, Islam has gotten a bad rap as of late.

 

[DefKhan1]

me, too, I enjoy Khan's input, and I read this thread with LOTS of interest
It's so easy imo because we're all brothers and sisters in the end and we all - who do believe - believe in one God in the end

Thanks. It means a lot. I was born and raised here. Love New Orleans and wouldn't live anywhere else. My great grandparents on my mother's side are buried in North Carolina and my grandfather is buried here in New Orleans and we have a bunch of family plots there to join him one day. So I'm not going any where and if my kids are going to have an easier time growing up, it's going to be through me getting more people to understand that we all want the same thing, regardless of who or what, if anything, we worship. To have a normal, fulfilling life being the best humans we possibly can be to one another.

 

[Metairie Man]

Easiest explanation is that a being with God-like powers created everything.

The easiest explanation is that the universe has always existed.

If God can just exist, then why can't the universe? We know the universe exists. The same can't be said about a creator. Introducing a creator just adds another unknown element and makes things more difficult.

 

[DefKhan1]

It's the chicken and the egg analogy

sidetrack, but I've already solved this mystery.
Evolution says the egg came first because reptiles lay eggs as well, and birds evolved from reptiles, so some very confused lizard laid the egg that hatched a chicken.

THUS, the EGG came first, clearly.

 

[Crzycjunx76]

sidetrack, but I've already solved this mystery.
Evolution says the egg came first because reptiles lay eggs as well, and birds evolved from reptiles, so some very confused lizard laid the egg that hatched a chicken.

THUS, the EGG came first, clearly.

Well it would be more of a proto-chicken that had evolved from some other primitive bird that had evolved from one of the warm blooded reptiles grouped in with the dinosaurs but yes I do believe you are on to something here. Since a new mutation would be necessary to create the first chicken that would mean the egg that hatched it did indeed preceded the first real chicken.

 

[wowatkin]

I've only made it to page 6 at this point but I just felt compelled to add that this is a very good thread. Kudos to the posters that attempt to add meaningful thoughts to the conversation. That's not always an easy thing to do in a discussion on religion.

+ rep to the OP as well

 

[DefKhan1]

Well it would be more of a proto-chicken that had evolved from some other primitive bird that had evolved from one of the warm blooded reptiles grouped in with the dinosaurs but yes I do believe you are on to something here. Since a new mutation would be necessary to create the first chicken that would mean the egg that hatched it did indeed preceded the first real chicken.

I skipped numerous stages of evolution just to present the big picture, but I do believe I've solved the question. Now onto the crossing the road one.

 

[authentic]

I just can't believe that everything sprang from nothing without someone causing it. I don't care what scientists theorize, they cannot 100 percent explain how the universe came to be. It's impossible. Easiest explanation is that a being with God-like powers created everything. How? But everything from nothing? How do you explain that?

Why is your explanation more plausible than mine?

 

[authentic]

Thanks. It means a lot. I was born and raised here. Love New Orleans and wouldn't live anywhere else. My great grandparents on my mother's side are buried in North Carolina and my grandfather is buried here in New Orleans and we have a bunch of family plots there to join him one day. So I'm not going any where and if my kids are going to have an easier time growing up, it's going to be through me getting more people to understand that we all want the same thing, regardless of who or what, if anything, we worship. To have a normal, fulfilling life being the best humans we possibly can be to one another.

That's how I feel about it as well. If only everyone was that thoughtful.

 

[DefKhan1]

The easiest explanation is that the universe has always existed.

If God can just exist, then why can't the universe? We know the universe exists. The same can't be said about a creator. Introducing a creator just adds another unknown element and makes things more difficult.

So essentially we come down to two choices.
1) God has always existed and in some way shaped the universe.
2) Universe has just always existed and continuously evolved into what we have today.

Why does one seem any more logical than the other?

 

[authentic]

Neither one really is, but people of faith act like it's crazy that we don't believe.

 

[SebaSaint]

Neither one really is, but people of faith act like it's crazy that we don't believe.

And people of "no faith" act like we are sheep believing in made up purple dragons.

As I mentioned in one of my previous posts, we are all in the same boat.