Why doesn’t anyone believe in Davenport? (1 Viewer)

[ilvdsnts]

I believe in him.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I guess that we just have differing opinions on terminology. Initially you said that he was "very good". I disagree. A very good player is a guy who is a pro bowl caliber player. Davenport hasn't been a pro bowl caliber player. Now you are saying "pretty good". I completely agree with that terminology. He's solid-to-good when healthy. But "very good"? I think of guys like Demario Davis and Marshon Lattimore as "very good"...and I just don't think that Davenport is on that level (even when healthy). Cam Jordan is exception/elite, and Davenport is not even close to that tier of production.

That's a high bar. Lattimore is better than very good. He's elite. Lattimore is one of three players on the team that you could make a legitimate argument that they are the best at their position in football (Ram, CGM). Davis is right on the cusp of elite. I'd say "very good" would be in the top 25-30% of players at your position, "Pretty good" is basically above average.

Healthy Davenport was better than "above average" last year. He was an excellent, or very good player. And he's only going to get better.

 

[Slaw]

That's a high bar. Lattimore is better than very good. He's elite. Lattimore is one of three players on the team that you could make a legitimate argument that they are the best at their position in football (Ram, CGM). Davis is right on the cusp of elite. I'd say "very good" would be in the top 25-30% of players at your position, "Pretty good" is basically above average.

Healthy Davenport was better than "above average" last year. He was an excellent, or very good player. And he's only going to get better.

I believe in Davenport, When he is on the field he is a force and disrupts plays pretty consistently. His play has not been poor, but his availability has been. When he plays a full season there is no doubt in my mind he will be one of the elite DE's in the league.

I can’t help but say that IMO, Davis was the best LB in the NFL in 2019-20.

 

[horn87fan]

He's gonna be a great player if he stays healthy. We are a better defense when he is on the field. JMO

 

[Igordão]

That's a high bar. Lattimore is better than very good. He's elite. Lattimore is one of three players on the team that you could make a legitimate argument that they are the best at their position in football (Ram, CGM). Davis is right on the cusp of elite. I'd say "very good" would be in the top 25-30% of players at your position, "Pretty good" is basically above average.

Healthy Davenport was better than "above average" last year. He was an excellent, or very good player. And he's only going to get better.

Lattimore has not been elite since his rookie season. He is not even close to best in the league right now.

 

[No2DC]

Lattimore has not been elite since his rookie season. He is not even close to best in the league right now.

He's been more reliable and constent than Davenport.

 

[Loose Cannon]

Lattimore has not been elite since his rookie season. He is not even close to best in the league right now.

There are a lot of Saints fans who don't know much about football that say a lot of dumb things like "he's regressed omg!" after they watched him put up generational, unsustainable stats his rookie year and "regressed" from an 8-10 game stretch of "the best defensive player to ever play football" type numbers to "top 2-3 CB in the league" type numbers.

You, and they, will just need to watch more football. He is one of the best, if not the best CB in football. We can revisit this again when he's a free agent, if you'd like to be wrong even more.

 

[Igordão]

There are a lot of Saints fans who don't know much about football that say a lot of dumb things like "he's regressed omg!" after they watched him put up generational, unsustainable stats his rookie year and "regressed" from an 8-10 game stretch of "the best defensive player to ever play football" type numbers to "top 2-3 CB in the league" type numbers.

You, and they, will just need to watch more football. He is one of the best, if not the best CB in football. We can revisit this again when he's a free agent, if you'd like to be wrong even more.

He is not the best CB in football, he is not top 3 either. In the first half of 2018 he was not good. Then he recovered and was good for the rest of the year. Last year he was good too, but he was never top 2-3 like in his rookie year. Never. His overall pff grade from last year shows that too.

yeah, he's regressed. OMG!

Maybe his god-like grades in his rookie season are skewing his grades over the last three years. I don't know.

There are a lot of Saints fans that cannot see besides their bias towards the team and say dumb things like "There are a lot of Saints fans who don't know much about football that say a lot of dumb things like 'he's regressed omg!' ". But someone with the absolute minimum of brain cells and mental health to be honest with themselves can see he is very good, probably top 10 in the league, but not top 3 until. Not right now.

You, and they, should try to take care of your insecurities and be more honest about things in life, including the team you are a fan of.

 

[NatureBoy]

He is not the best CB in football, he is not top 3 either. In the first half of 2018 he was not good. Then he recovered and was good for the rest of the year. Last year he was good too, but he was never top 2-3 like in his rookie year. Never. His overall pff grade from last year shows that too.

yeah, he's regressed. OMG!

Maybe his god-like grades in his rookie season are skewing his grades over the last three years. I don't know.

There are a lot of Saints fans that cannot see besides their bias towards the team and say dumb things like "There are a lot of Saints fans who don't know much about football that say a lot of dumb things like 'he's regressed omg!' ". But someone with the absolute minimum of brain cells and mental health to be honest with themselves can see he is very good, probably top 10 in the league, but not top 3 until. Not right now.

You, and they, should try to take care of your insecurities and be more honest about things in life, including the team you are a fan of.

PFF breaks down the film from every play of all who qualify at their position, and based on the data of those reports, they rank the players.

In the post above you they rank man coverage results of qualifying CB’s from 2017-2019 and Latt grades 2nd.

What’s your system and grading system? Why should we believe it over PFF? Honest questions.

 

[Igordão]

PFF breaks down the film from every play of all who qualify at their position, and based on the data of those reports, they rank the players.

In the post above you they rank man coverage results of qualifying CB’s from 2017-2019 and Latt grades 2nd.

What’s your system and grading system? Why should we believe it over PFF? Honest questions.

Well, for some part it's just my opinion based at what I saw during games, so, not much credibility.

But we can trust PFF itself too, since it doesn't contradict with what I'm saying.

Marshon Lattimore | New Orleans Saints CB | NFL and PFF stats | PFF

NFL and PFF player stats for New Orleans Saints CB Marshon Lattimore on Pro Football Focus.

www.pff.com

 

[Igordão]

He's been more reliable and constent than Davenport.

Yes, I agree with that. Lattimore is a very good player, just not top three/elite. Davenport on the other hand has a lot of talent, is good already, but is not in that very good level yet.

Also, I think some of the blame for Lattimore not being elite since his rookie years is on our defensive coached with bad defensive scheme at times.

 

[JvilleJoe]

IMO Davenport has one problem and that is staying healthy. He is a great talent and I believe has progressed when he has been on the field. Now lets see if he can play 16 plus games this year and we will have a definitive answer as to his progress and potential!

 

[Randy Jones]

Trying to create distance between players' performance and measure the production for a professional football player, especially a defensive player is like trying to count the number of angels on the head of a pin. Each player is constrained by the type of defense, the defensive schemes called on each play, and his role in the defense.

It is way to subjective to define someone as elite, subpar and so forth based on the fans' opinion. While it may be fun to argue the point, it is somewhat pointless. The only evaluation that matters is the team's front office.

I think the tell will be how much the Saints value him in contract negotiations . Another tell is the All-Pro (not Pro-Bowl) selection. Fans are not involved in this selection process as opposed to the Pro Bowl.

 

[No2DC]

Yes, I agree with that. Lattimore is a very good player, just not top three/elite. Davenport on the other hand has a lot of talent, is good already, but is not in that very good level yet.

Also, I think some of the blame for Lattimore not being elite since his rookie years is on our defensive coached with bad defensive scheme at times.

I think most of us see it. His first he started to flash and then he had some type of turf toe that took a few weeks to get back in the groove. Last year was similar except this time he was gone for the year. In terms of Latt, jackpot. He migh not be the best but he has a chance to be the best CB we ever drafted, no corner is perfect and teams still avoid him.

 

[sammymvpknight]

PFF breaks down the film from every play of all who qualify at their position, and based on the data of those reports, they rank the players.

In the post above you they rank man coverage results of qualifying CB’s from 2017-2019 and Latt grades 2nd.

What’s your system and grading system? Why should we believe it over PFF? Honest questions.

2017 was nuts. He was clearly elite in 2017. But isn't there an averaging effect of the 3 year period? It'd be like saying that Jimmy Graham was an elite TE for the Seahawks because he was an elite TE the year before with the Saints.