Why God may not be all powerful (1 Viewer)

fish321

Pro-Bowler
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
682
Reaction score
43
Location
Metairie
Offline
First let me say that this is just something for discussion, not neccesarily my beliefs, but something I would like to put out there for discussion.

God is all powerful, omnipotent, can never be wrong. His word is always true and if he says it, it is.

God made a pact with Peter, the rock on which he built his church, the first pope, he said what you hold true on earth I will hold true in heaven. According to catholic dogma that pact has been passed down through the ages via the pope.

Think about how important that pact is, because here is where God gave up being all powerful, whatever rule the pope makes on earth regarding our souls God is oath bound to follow. He has no choice in the matter because his word is the beginning and the end, it cannot be wrong. If God does not follow the decree of the pope he breaks his pact, and he has broken his word.

So to summarize if the pope decrees that anyone owning a cat is going to hell God must adhere to it because what the pope holds true on earth, God is honor bound to hold true in heaven.

The reason I got to thinking about this is the new 7 social sins. I find some of them to be a little absurd and dont consider most to be hell worthy offenses, but if what the bible says is true God will honor those rules. Either he does meaning the pope has the power to control Gods decision, or he doesnt and he breaks his word.

Please I would love to hear everyones thoughts on this, I thought it to be a good discussion thread.
 

Kin Korn Karn

All-Pro
Joined
Mar 21, 2007
Messages
1,286
Reaction score
89
Location
Unknown ?
Offline
Well I take it as whatever we are bound to religously as far as sins here we will be bound to in heaven as well. Not so much an entrance exam but more of a code of conduct for the afterlife.
 

LSSpam

Practice Squad
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Messages
28,419
Reaction score
8,141
Age
39
Location
Oxford, MS
Offline
God made a pact with Peter, the rock on which he built his church, the first pope, he said what you hold true on earth I will hold true in heaven. According to catholic dogma that pact has been passed down through the ages via the pope.

This is, as you note, Catholic dogma/tradition. It's not integral to a belief in (big G) God or Christianity itself. I refer you to any Protestant sect, Abyssinian Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Mormons, etc.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed.
 

philipkw

Truth Finder
VIP Contributor
Joined
Sep 29, 2006
Messages
2,064
Reaction score
379
Offline
According to catholic dogma that pact has been passed down through the ages via the pope.

Maybe on this point catholic dogma is severely flawed. :shrug:
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
8,769
Reaction score
1,366
Location
Lafayette, Louisiana
Offline
First let me say that this is just something for discussion, not neccesarily my beliefs, but something I would like to put out there for discussion.

God is all powerful, omnipotent, can never be wrong. His word is always true and if he says it, it is.

God made a pact with Peter, the rock on which he built his church, the first pope, he said what you hold true on earth I will hold true in heaven. According to catholic dogma that pact has been passed down through the ages via the pope.

Think about how important that pact is, because here is where God gave up being all powerful, whatever rule the pope makes on earth regarding our souls God is oath bound to follow. He has no choice in the matter because his word is the beginning and the end, it cannot be wrong. If God does not follow the decree of the pope he breaks his pact, and he has broken his word.

So to summarize if the pope decrees that anyone owning a cat is going to hell God must adhere to it because what the pope holds true on earth, God is honor bound to hold true in heaven.

The reason I got to thinking about this is the new 7 social sins. I find some of them to be a little absurd and dont consider most to be hell worthy offenses, but if what the bible says is true God will honor those rules. Either he does meaning the pope has the power to control Gods decision, or he doesnt and he breaks his word.

Please I would love to hear everyones thoughts on this, I thought it to be a good discussion thread.


I doubt Catholic dogma says that God granted his sovereignty to the Pope, though I may be wrong. Someone else who knows more than me will have to let us know.

As an aside, there aren't 'seven new social sins' or seven new mortal sins. You should revisit the thread discussing the issue.
 

LSSpam

Practice Squad
Joined
Jun 2, 2002
Messages
28,419
Reaction score
8,141
Age
39
Location
Oxford, MS
Offline
I doubt Catholic dogma says that God granted his sovereignty to the Pope, though I may be wrong. Someone else who knows more than me will have to let us know.

As an aside, there aren't 'seven new social sins' or seven new mortal sins. You should revisit the thread discussing the issue.

The precise verses are
Matthew 16:13 - 19
13 When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say that the Son of Man is?" 14 They replied, "Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets." 15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter said in reply, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father in Heaven. 18 And so I say unto you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

But, like much in the bible, this is up for debate. For instance, is he speaking about Peter in the figurative? "upon this rock (i.e. people with faith like you) I will build my church". And he certainly doesn't explicitly set Peter as literal head of the entire Christian faith (which flies contrary to how the apostles originally organized the churches anyways).

There's a lot more involved but the nuts and bolts of it are that you do not have to accept Roman Catholic Dogma as Truth (big T) as a precondition to being "Christian" and the overwhelming variety of sects distinct from Roman Catholicism is more then enough example.
 

CitySaint

SR is my life!
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
10,765
Offline
I suppose its all up to interpretation and that the truth is relative. Some people don't think the bible is worth interpreting at all. I think the article in the previous thread gave a bad explanation on the churches perception of the whole '7 new sins' issue. It's easier to just oversimplify and thats what the media is so good at.
 

CCL36

Super Forum Fanatic
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Messages
6,904
Reaction score
1,463
Offline
God's Word and God never contradict but

God's Word and the Popes words are not Equal, For Popes have contradicted each other throughout history.
Peter is Not "The Rock" but "the rock". The Popes througout history have hardley resembeled the person of Peter who was a True apostle thus to think they recieved his (meaning Peter's) mantle is illogical and the fabric of fairy tales.
 
Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
8,769
Reaction score
1,366
Location
Lafayette, Louisiana
Offline
The precise verses are
Matthew 16:13 - 19


But, like much in the bible, this is up for debate. For instance, is he speaking about Peter in the figurative? "upon this rock (i.e. people with faith like you) I will build my church". And he certainly doesn't explicitly set Peter as literal head of the entire Christian faith (which flies contrary to how the apostles originally organized the churches anyways).

There's a lot more involved but the nuts and bolts of it are that you do not have to accept Roman Catholic Dogma as Truth (big T) as a precondition to being "Christian" and the overwhelming variety of sects distinct from Roman Catholicism is more then enough example.

I don't see where in that verse God hands Peter sovereignty, but I am nowhere near a theologian.
 

Joe OKC

"Better Days"
Gold VIP Contributor
Joined
Sep 1, 1997
Messages
20,412
Reaction score
6,968
Age
56
Location
OKC, OK
Offline
I don;t know Catholic dogma... We had a Baptist Church.. That meant dinner on Wednesday and Sunday Nights. ;)

But the Pope can admit wrong and change stuff.. Specially pope number 2. But I sure Liked dem Methodusts...

I think that every man's realtionship with God is his own. There is a right and a wrong. Dark and a Light... And that Man knows if he did the right thing before God, neighbors and himself...

Joe
 

CitySaint

SR is my life!
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
10,765
Offline
The pope has the keys, thats who Jesus gave em to. I really don't know what else to say.
 

Hoyasaint

Banned
Joined
Dec 10, 2004
Messages
4,943
Reaction score
14
Age
14
Location
Mid-City
Offline
The pope has the keys, thats who Jesus gave em to. I really don't know what else to say.

Looks like he did a pretty good job with that whole Inquisition and wink wink nod nod during the WWII. If the keys were passed to the Pope, sounds like every now and then the inmates run the asylum.

Plus I like how the rules change when ever the Pope feels like it. I thought The Word was The Word perfect and unfailing from the begining, if this is the case, WTH is with the Pope changing what is Right.
 
OP
fish321

fish321

Pro-Bowler
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Messages
682
Reaction score
43
Location
Metairie
Offline
Im not even catholic, I dont believe in organized religion, I just can't justify following any religion that has made so many horrific mistakes. I will say I dont actually believe the bible to be anything more than a collection of allegorical tales meant to help us find our way, but there are many who dont. Do those people who follow the catholic religion actually believe that god could have possibly consented to the crusades? Spanish inquisition? Witch hunts?
 

CitySaint

SR is my life!
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
11,574
Reaction score
10,765
Offline
The Word is perfect and the Word gave the keys to Peter. Only a couple of churches can lay claim to those keys and the authority the Word gave Peter.

Peter had the keys and the authority and I'm sure had all kinds of mistakes in life, but that doesn't negate the authority given to him or his successor.
 

whiteshadowen

Millsaps TC forever
Joined
May 11, 2004
Messages
3,662
Reaction score
664
Age
64
Location
Vicksburg
Offline
http://www.bibletopics.com/biblestudy/45.htm

This is a pretty good summary of that Bible passage. I'm not catholic (baptist), so I can't speak for them. But as a christian, I don't for a minute believe that the Pope has any more authority to speak for God than I do. The Pope is simply a priest in a church. God has no greater love or regard for him than he does for any man or woman who chooses to follow Him.

It seems obvious to me that the "keys" referenced are simply the "saving faith" exhibited by Peter when he acknowledged that Jesus was the Christ. That knowledge is the "key" to heaven. The loosening and binding are just descriptive terms of the day that described the results of "saving faith". That what Jesus taught on earth concerning Himself as Christ, forgiveness of sins and eternal life would be held true in Heaven. All the church has this commission of "loosening and binding" and we all have that same promise that it will be held true in Heaven.
 
Last edited:

Create an account or login to comment

You must be a member in order to leave a comment

Create account

Create an account on our community. It's easy!

Log in

Already have an account? Log in here.

Users who are viewing this thread

 

New Orleans Saints Twitter Feed

 

Headlines

Top Bottom