Why I think long term signing Carr was a mistake. (1 Viewer)

[saveFerris9]

Carr is a very good QB who's been held back by bad teams and bad coaching his whole career. He's a bargain at that contract level - hopefully even with the losses on D, this team is still good enough to support him properly for the first time in the NFL. Raider fan clowns have been down on him because they don't like him as a person but he's been just about the only good thing that team had for 9 years.

This is my thinking as well , Carr has been tasked with carrying a franchise the last nine years that was unable to put pieces around him that were good . When they hit on a good player they moved on from them , Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper . Franchise stability is a huge deal in this league, he will have his first chance this year to be part of a great organization top to bottom . I have this feeling that this next season will be far and away Derek Cart’s best season . 4000+ yards and 30+ TDS … I truly think we haven’t seen the best Carr has yet . He’s been really good but I think his “prime years “ could be ahead . Brees was 30 when we won the superbowl. His best years were all after that statistically. Derek is 32 and has a new lease on life so to speak . We could see him come into his own these next few seasons . Not saying he’s Drew Brees at all , he’s gonna be Derek as he would say but I think the best is yet to come for him .

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

This is my thinking as well , Carr has been tasked with carrying a franchise the last nine years that was unable to put pieces around him that were good . When they hit on a good player they moved on from them , Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper . Franchise stability is a huge deal in this league, he will have his first chance this year to be part of a great organization top to bottom . I have this feeling that this next season will be far and away Derek Cart’s best season . 4000+ yards and 30+ TDS … I truly think we haven’t seen the best Carr has yet . He’s been really good but I think his “prime years “ could be ahead . Brees was 32 when we won the superbowl. His best years were all after that statistically. Derek is 32 and has a new lease on life so to speak . We could see him come into his own these next few seasons . Not saying he’s Drew Brees at all , he’s gonna be Derek as he would say but I think the best is yet to come for him .

Brees had just turned 30 in 2009, not a big whoop but jussayin

 

[saveFerris9]

Brees had just turned 30 in 2009, not a big whoop but jussayin

Math failed me on that on my bad

 

[Ken-Bob]

I have little doubt the Saints will draft some QBs, even with Carr on the roster. If one of them looks to be a real deal franchise QB, then they'll likely let Carr go. If, after a period of time, they don't have someone who can do the job well (including Carr) they'll likely move on to a new coach and a high draft pick - to me, the high pick is the worst case scenario. Either way, Carr's contract allows them some flexibility.

 

[Derrick 63]

Would love to here thoughts, anyone else out there in the wish we had started a rebuild camp? What do you think is the most realistic outcome for the team over the next couple of years?

I couldn't really disagree with anything you said. I think signing Carr was the only way to go. If Allen does not work out, then he doesn't work out. The older players you mention will be closer to the door and that will be a good time to start a "rebuild." You can't really get a quality read on how good of a coach Allen really is unless you give him a chance to succeed with a quality QB.

In my mind if they want to rebuild then they should have started with a new head coach. They didn't, so now the best option they have is to give him the tools needed to win.

 

[jahsoul357]

I couldn't really disagree with anything you said. I think signing Carr was the only way to go. If Allen does not work out, then he doesn't work out. The older players you mention will be closer to the door and that will be a good time to start a "rebuild." You can't really get a quality read on how good of a coach Allen really is unless you give him a chance to succeed with a quality QB.

In my mind if they want to rebuild then they should have started with a new head coach. They didn't, so now the best option they have is to give him the tools needed to win.

Actually, you can....

-Andy Reid succeeds with dang near every QB he has had under center
-We went 9-8 with a decimated squad and 4 different QBs in 2021
-Kyle Shanahan made Brock Purdy look like one of the best QBs in the league
-With Doug Pederson, Trevor Lawrence went from the worst starting QB in the league to top 10 in yards and TDs.

Not saying skill/talent isn't a requirement but good coaching always shines through. And if people are being completely honest, QB play was probably one of the least of our problems this past season. Play calling, penalties, fumbles, defense being near the bottom of the league in turnovers, and red zone efficiency (ties back to play calling) hurt us more than anything.

 

[Derrick 63]

Actually, you can....

Don't really disagree with you. It is why I used the two somewhat clunky "reallys" in my sentence. I guess I am trying to say that not having a good QB makes it difficult to judge his actual coaching ability. If you don't have one, you can always be suspicious that is why he struggles to succeed or you know he is a good coach if he is winning with sub-par talent at QB. It is a difficult thing to judge unless you are just looking at win/loss, but there are a lot of variables no matter how much people want to deny it.

I'm also (somewhat) willing to concede that having mid-level QBs like Winston and Dalton (might) cause a coach to make game calls that he wouldn't if he had a QB that he had more confidence in. IMO with Carr, if we continue to slop around and play mediocre football on offense then you can honestly say that you know head coaching is an issue if not THE issue. I don't think it is fair to use Reid as the measuring stick since he is a great HC, especially at managing the QB, but I get your point.

I think you will still be able to question WR and offensive line, but I'm hoping those issues are strengthened in the draft.

 

[DSnfla]

Actually, you can....

-Andy Reid succeeds with dang near every QB he has had under center
-We went 9-8 with a decimated squad and 4 different QBs in 2021
-Kyle Shanahan made Brock Purdy look like one of the best QBs in the league
-With Doug Pederson, Trevor Lawrence went from the worst starting QB in the league to top 10 in yards and TDs.

Not saying skill/talent isn't a requirement but good coaching always shines through. And if people are being completely honest, QB play was probably one of the least of our problems this past season. Play calling, penalties, fumbles, defense being near the bottom of the league in turnovers, and red zone efficiency (ties back to play calling) hurt us more than anything.

Reid is a good coach but he has had the benefit of having elite QB's most of his career. As OC in GB he had Farve, in Phily it was Mcnabb. Now in KC it's Mahomes. Even when he had Vick he was just above average. When he has an average QB his record is average to just above. Shanahan couldn't do it with Rex Grossman, or RG in Washand he had Ryan in Atl, Purdy's sample size is way too small to tell how good he's gonna be
I'm sorry QB play was one of our big problems last yr. both of them were awful to just plain bad with an occasional mediocre thrown in. ( And I don't care what rankings say they don't tell the story). Playcalling is directly affected by the competency and talent of the QB. If your QB has a weak arm your playcalling is affected, if your QB is bad at pre-snap reads and detecting blitzes, playcalling is affected.
Yes all those other things along with major injures were issues but it starts with QB play on offense

 

[Rouxble]

Playcalling is directly affected by the competency and talent of the QB. If your QB has a weak arm your playcalling is affected, if your QB is bad at pre-snap reads and detecting blitzes, playcalling is affected.

Don't need to look any further than our 2021 season. Payton had to custom tailor his game plans from week to week based on whoever he could find to suit up as QB for the game. None of those guys were running the Drew Brees offense from 2020.

 

[ATLien]

I will start of by saying that I am excited about Saint's football in 2023. I like Carr as a person and player. Jamaal Williams is going to be fun to watch on and off the field. We will be completive and unless something major changes will be the favorites to win the South. As a Saint's fan the idea that come next Jan. we will likely be watching playoff football is something to be excited for. Having said that I will now make the case as to why I think the Carr signing will likely be a mistake in the long wrong.

Team Age:

Last year the Saint's ranked the 5th oldest team at 27 year 2 months. This is even more evident when you look at skill positions.

QB - Carr 31
ER - Cam Jordon 34
WR- Mike Thomas 30
CB- Marshon Lattimore 27
RT- Ryan Ramczyk 29
RB - Alvin Kamara 28
LB - Demario Davis 34

Outside of Olave and Warner we don't have a ton of young talent. The window is closing and you could make the argument it already closed.

Salary Cap:

Yep lets talk about the cap. I have zero issues with kicking the can and trying to stay relevant, when we had a future HOF quarterback. It's always going to come due at some point and this seemed like a great time to start that process. The restructuring has also limited are ability to trade players and attempt to gain future draft picks. The Panthers got a 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th round picks for Christian Mccaffrey. It would be nice to have the flexibility to unload some of the aging talent for future picks while they still have value. I love Alvin Kamara, but we are paying $8 million for a RB that will likely miss a third of the year that has a cap hit next year of $18 million.

Coaching:

I am just not sold on DA and Pete C. I feel like I did last season with a lot of optimism, to be honest I need to see. 90% of this board wanted the entire coaching staff fired just a few months ago. While I do think we will be favored in the South, I think it might be closer then people think. I just don't have a ton of faith. What's more a NFC South title likely saves DA for another year. I just don't think he is the answer long term.

Draft:

The Saint's have struggled in the draft, while Olave is trending in the right direction, we have a lot of 1st round misses. I am still worried we will continue the trend of moving up in the draft and trading away future picks to climb up after another player the team falls in love with. I know you can find ways to justify the Philly trade but having a top 10 pick now would be huge.

Conclusion:

I keep asking myself what the ceiling on this team is and keep landing on a wild-card weekend win at best. Is a couple of playoff appearances over the next couple of years worth waiting on the inevitable rebuild that is coming. Sure we have a shot at a Super Bowl but even the most die hard Saint knows that is a longshot. As an interesting note that Saints have only drafted 1 QB in the 1st round in franchise history. 52 years ago we drafted Archie Manning in 1971. The last 24 Super Bowl winners 12 where 1st round picks. If you take away TB12's 7 that's 5 other Super Bowl winning QB's that where not 1st round selections. I would love for us to buck that trend again, but the odds are against it.

Would love to here thoughts, anyone else out there in the wish we had started a rebuild camp? What do you think is the most realistic outcome for the team over the next couple of years?

Your "Coaching" take is spot on. I hope I'm wrong, (don't think I will be) but coaching is the achilles tendon, and this is where we'll falter until that weak spot is fixed.

 

[BRSaint225]

Actually, you can....

-Andy Reid succeeds with dang near every QB he has had under center
-We went 9-8 with a decimated squad and 4 different QBs in 2021
-Kyle Shanahan made Brock Purdy look like one of the best QBs in the league
-With Doug Pederson, Trevor Lawrence went from the worst starting QB in the league to top 10 in yards and TDs.

Not saying skill/talent isn't a requirement but good coaching always shines through. And if people are being completely honest, QB play was probably one of the least of our problems this past season. Play calling, penalties, fumbles, defense being near the bottom of the league in turnovers, and red zone efficiency (ties back to play calling) hurt us more than anything.

You just compared Dennis Allen to all offensive coaches please. The side of the ball he specializes in has not been our issue. He NEEDs a QB. I guarantee Demeco Ryan doesn’t pass up on a QB either. I’ll judge DA this year with his choice at QB who’s Carr. We’ve also been brutally injured the last two years which needs to be better.